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  #61  
Old June 13th, 2016, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
Just for some context to add data to a lot of emotion.

Since 9/11, prior to Orlando, 45 people had been killed in Jihadist linked/inspired/affiliated attacks. Orlando, of course, now doubles that number to 100.
More people than that are shot and killed everyday by Americans who are not Muslim. Why is it that only families involved care? You are way more apt to be shot and killed by non-Muslim Americans while going about your daily life than by terrorists. But no one seems to care but the victim's family. We are all so used to a high number of daily killings that are not terrorist attacks that no one seems to care anymore.

And about guns in a bar? Alcohol + guns + testosterone = a deadly mix. Best the guards & non-drinking bouncers only be armed.

Here's a thought no one has mentioned yet. Keep the guns but limit magazines to only 7 rounds. Reloading gives people time to fight back or flee. And if you can not bring down a deer or hit a target in 7 shots you need instruction or glasses or should not have a gun. Why do you need a 40 round clip to go hunting?

Disclaimer: Yes I do have 40 round clips but have never found a use for them.
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  #62  
Old June 13th, 2016, 01:57 PM
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Whether the shooter was "directed" or "inspired" by ISIS, is immaterial, as they use both of those tactics to create terror. The current narrative keeps trying to make this a "hate" crime, and a reason to ban guns. Inspiring homegrown psychos is part of their plan...
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  #63  
Old June 13th, 2016, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeriAnn View Post
More people than that are shot and killed everyday by Americans who are not Muslim.
That's a pretty bold statement.
Is there a fact to back that up somewhere?

I'm positive that more people will drown in swimming pools this year but politicians arent stumping for "common sense" pool rules...



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  #64  
Old June 13th, 2016, 02:19 PM
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Listening to gun advice from some one calling a magazine a clip is like taking Rover mechanical advice from a drunken Otter....sure he can use rocks as simple tools but that doesn't mean he can fix a Rover.

------ Follow up post added June 13th, 2016 02:20 PM ------

I apologize to all Otters it was the least offensive thing I could come up with.
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  #65  
Old June 13th, 2016, 02:42 PM
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Teriann, the concept of limiting magazine to 7 (or pick a number) rounds is not new. The problem comes in where a person bent on doing evil (whatever the motivation) will NEVER obey that law - EVER!

And even if you did limit magazine or heck even clicked our heels a said no more semi-auto handguns or self loading rifles you still have this...



and this...

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  #66  
Old June 13th, 2016, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
That's a pretty bold statement.
Is there a fact to back that up somewhere?

I'm positive that more people will drown in swimming pools this year but politicians arent stumping for "common sense" pool rules...



.
I don't have a dog in the pro/anti gun fight. I just like data.

A quick crunch of CDC Mortality data in 2014:

Assault by handgun discharge: 680
Assault by rifle, shotgun and larger firearm discharge: 319
Intentional self-harm by handgun discharge: 5352
Intentional self-harm by rifle, shotgun and larger firearm discharge: 3027
Drowning and submersion while in swimming-pool: 528
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  #67  
Old June 13th, 2016, 03:05 PM
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I am glad to see this thread on here. It's worth coming out of lurking to add my voice to something that should be discussed more publicly, widely, at very high levels.

A founding tenant of this nation is that a citizen's rights cannot be removed without unassailable justification. 'Someone says' is not justification. The FBI investigations obviously did not turn up 'unassailable' evidence. Valid questions might be - were the correct questions were asked, were the answers valid, and were they independently verified?

A shift happened in society in the past 70 or so years. Less self reliance, but also less dependence on our neighbors for help and less knowledgeable about the hardships neighbors face. We've self-isolated, I think through national success. We no longer worry for food/shelter by and large, or any of the issues which led to the passing down of some aspects of our past societal beliefs. Fear of gun ownership is merely distrust of our neighbors and even lack of self confidence in ourselves. The gun issues all go away when people trust each other, and therefore honest warnings to authorities about unhealthy people carry more weight.

I'm all for waiting periods and background checks (the checks would not have helped in this case) on firearms, with methods to appeal. But our society has to have an open discussion about isolated and/or mentally ill persons in our society, if it's unamerican to limit their rights when they have done nothing wrong in the hopes of preventing things in the future, how any changes might be misused in the future (because they will be, historical fact), and how modern society allows individuals to not expose themselves to differing opinions in constructive ways.

We are at a point where I believe, for the good of our nation, we need to define what it means to be an American Citizen again. I think these things have been lost even quicker through the lack of a draft, and the misuse of power at high levels that has led to general distrust in authority, perpetuated by distrustful media, that seeps its way down into person to person and neighbor to neighbor levels.
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  #68  
Old June 13th, 2016, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeriAnn View Post
Here's a thought no one has mentioned yet. Keep the guns but limit magazines to only 7 rounds. Reloading gives people time to fight back or flee.
In a perfect world we wouldn't need laws, people would just do the right thing. The world isn't perfect and as stated over and over criminals don't follow the law nor do they give a crap about the law. That's why they are criminals! The San Bernardino shooters illegally possessed their weapons which didn't possess that ridiculous California bullet button, they discharged their weapons within the city limits, they killed multiple people and they exceeded the speed limit while running from the cops. They didn't follow a single law yet their victims were unarmed either by choice of because............. Wait for it........... They followed California's laws regarding their ridiculous anti CCW laws or they respected the no guns sign which their murders chose to ignore as they walked past it.
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  #69  
Old June 13th, 2016, 03:16 PM
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These trageties do happen too often, and they are getting harder to stomach.

It may be true that if guns didn't exist then gun violence would not exist. If cars didn't exist there would be no deaths from car accidents, or drunk driving. If there were no airplanes then 9/11 would have never happened. So, maybe we should rid our country of cars and planes, and guns. I suppose the polititions believe removing these would take away the hate that was behind 9/11 and the violence that continues to kill innocent people.
Smaller rifle or pistol magazines would sureley make a difference -and maybe we could make people eat with smaller forks to prevent them from getting fat -for their own good of course.

Terrorism has many forms. Living in fear and bickering over the results of violence from jihadists gives the bad guys the upper hand.

This is not utopia. People get sunburned, and colds, and fired, and cancer. Every day that live in fear of death from Jihadists is a day that the Jihadsts have won. If you want to live somehere where there are no guns, move there. I choose to keep my imperfect world and my right to defend myself and my family with my gun. If the day comes where we have to give them up, God help us all.
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  #70  
Old June 13th, 2016, 03:22 PM
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If you think this is about guns, you are sorely mistaken. In fact... while these people crave attention, the idea that we should blame ourselves, or guns is exactly what they hope for:




Don't miss this:
The Secret History of ISIS | FRONTLINE | PBS


These two shows are an introduction to what this is really about. You can do further research, but at least this will be a foundation. We cannot allow ourselves to live in fear, but we must stay alert and educated about what is happening.
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  #71  
Old June 13th, 2016, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBBailey View Post
If you think this is about guns, you are sorely mistaken. In fact... while these people crave attention, the idea that we should blame ourselves, or guns is exactly what they hope for:




Don't miss this:
The Secret History of ISIS | FRONTLINE | PBS
No what they hope for is that we elect Trump... He will be the single best ISIS recruiter on the planet.
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  #72  
Old June 13th, 2016, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmountainrover View Post
Listening to gun advice from some one calling a magazine a clip is like taking Rover mechanical advice from a drunken Otter....sure he can use rocks as simple tools but that doesn't mean he can fix a Rover.
I learned the term clip from my father when he was teaching my sister and I to shoot and just continued using it. He probably learned it in the Marines when he was taught to load and fire a M1 Garand rifle during WWII (Second Marine division). While I own 2 guns, I'm not really into them enough to be an expert on them. Sorry if the term I learned as a child isn't what people use today and caused you to take umbrage.

As far as being able to fix a Rover, if it is a Series Land Rover I'm probably one of the best shade tree mechanics you will find. I've maintained my current Land Rover for the last 38 years including my share of on the trail repairs. And it is my second Land Rover. I'll admit I have not touched a wrench to any of the coilers so would never assume to give repair advice for one. But people email me daily from all around the world asking my advice on repairing or upgrading Series trucks. Learn who you are writing about before you accuse me of not knowing the mechanics of a Series truck.

As to the person who asked for data,

From the CDC:
Year / number of homicides
2010 / 11,078
2011 / 11,068
2012 / 11,622
2013 / 11,208
2014 / 10,947

So why is it that no one really cares? And that most people's response is they hope the other person misses and gives them the chance to shoot back. Then they assume they will be more accurate than the bad guy. That mostly only happens on TV.
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  #73  
Old June 13th, 2016, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
No what they hope for is that we elect Trump... He will be the single best ISIS recruiter on the planet.
Based on fact? Emotion?
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  #74  
Old June 13th, 2016, 04:11 PM
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Based on fact? Emotion?
common sense....
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  #75  
Old June 13th, 2016, 04:12 PM
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common sense....
Ahh😉👍🏻
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  #76  
Old June 13th, 2016, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by KGH View Post
Fair point.


Read the Eagles of Death Metal interview Gavin McInnes did. The lead singer watched as people froze in incomprehension.
uhh, we're talking about the French here

------ Follow up post added June 13th, 2016 04:16 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbull View Post
Whether the shooter was "directed" or "inspired" by ISIS, is immaterial, as they use both of those tactics to create terror. The current narrative keeps trying to make this a "hate" crime, and a reason to ban guns. Inspiring homegrown psychos is part of their plan...
SHHHHH!! Let Hillary and Obama run with that! Please!
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  #77  
Old June 13th, 2016, 05:24 PM
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I just found out that he went to the same high school I graduated from Martin County High School. Although ol' Omar ended up at the Spectrum school for bad kids. Creepy.
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  #78  
Old June 13th, 2016, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeriAnn View Post
I learned the term clip from my father when he was teaching my sister and I to shoot and just continued using it. He probably learned it in the Marines when he was taught to load and fire a M1 Garand rifle during WWII (Second Marine division). While I own 2 guns, I'm not really into them enough to be an expert on them. Sorry if the term I learned as a child isn't what people use today and caused you to take umbrage.

As far as being able to fix a Rover, if it is a Series Land Rover I'm probably one of the best shade tree mechanics you will find. I've maintained my current Land Rover for the last 38 years including my share of on the trail repairs. And it is my second Land Rover. I'll admit I have not touched a wrench to any of the coilers so would never assume to give repair advice for one. But people email me daily from all around the world asking my advice on repairing or upgrading Series trucks. Learn who you are writing about before you accuse me of not knowing the mechanics of a Series truck.

As to the person who asked for data,

From the CDC:
Year / number of homicides
2010 / 11,078
2011 / 11,068
2012 / 11,622
2013 / 11,208
2014 / 10,947

So why is it that no one really cares? And that most people's response is they hope the other person misses and gives them the chance to shoot back. Then they assume they will be more accurate than the bad guy. That mostly only happens on TV.


Not a problem mate not questioning your knowledge at all on Rover's. Your father was 100% right when referring to the stripper clips used on the M1 and 1903 . A clip is completely different then a magazine. Not different terms just 2 different things. Like a Hammer vs a screw driver. In the words of GI Joe knowing is half the battle. Pretty sure the other half is lots of tracer fire and explosions but who knows these days.
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  #79  
Old June 13th, 2016, 06:02 PM
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M1 garlands don't have "clips" unless you are refering to a bandolier... potato tomato

er uh my bad. It's not called a bandolier either... I just ate a bug
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  #80  
Old June 13th, 2016, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
I think some folks place way too much faith in folks with CCW's.
Are you telling me that those guys covered in velcro that look tactical AF aren't going to save me?
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