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  #201  
Old June 16th, 2016, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
Some more food for thought - for those of you who have never traveled, or are blissfully unaware. Switzerland until not so long ago, like 8 or so years, REQUIRED every household to have a bomb shelter AND guns. Think about it....required....how many mass shootings have they had in Switzerland?


My understanding for the requirement for males to have guns is part of their requirement for militia service. I seem to recall they do not get ammo.
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  #202  
Old June 16th, 2016, 10:28 AM
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Bacon shooters.
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  #203  
Old June 16th, 2016, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
Some more food for thought - for those of you who have never traveled, or are blissfully unaware. Switzerland until not so long ago, like 8 or so years, REQUIRED every household to have a bomb shelter AND guns. Think about it....required....how many mass shootings have they had in Switzerland? The USA is the ONLY country in the world where it is written into the articles of formation to encourage gun ownership - and this is primarily used for arming citizens with any firearm that can legally be bought. Many, Many, Many other countries have no such rules, in fact up until about 12 or so years ago the UK POLICE never carried firearms, on the beat...of course there were some at ports of entry, but not your local beat cop - in fact even today there are some that refuse. You will always have murders, you will always have radical lunatics, you will always have gang related assaults....most every country in one way form does - because of things like religion, hatred, lunacy, sicko's ... you name it. JUST MAKE IT HARDER FOR THEM TO DO IT. Not one CIVILIAN I know needs any type of assault weapon. Not one civilian I know can make a solid argument for why they need one.
I have a solid argument and it is one word. FREEDOM.
We the people are not here to be told what to do by the government. We are here to tell the elected government what to do. We can never forget that.and most of us have.
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  #204  
Old June 16th, 2016, 12:57 PM
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Gun are no more in Britian and this just happened:
MP Jo Cox Dies After Being Shot And Stabbed

When will people realize that criminals don't follow laws.
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  #205  
Old June 16th, 2016, 01:03 PM
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China mass stabbing: Deadly knife attack in Kunming - BBC News

Ban assault knives.
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  #206  
Old June 16th, 2016, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
Not one CIVILIAN I know needs any type of assault weapon. Not one civilian I know can make a solid argument for why they need one.

C'mon Craig, nobody needs a Defender....you could get around in a Civic!
I guess we need a better definition of assault weapon!

A friend of mine put it like this...

"Consider what you've seen on the news many times. When police respond to a location with a bad guy, which type of gun do they often have in their hands? Why do THEY choose the AR-15? If the police have deemed the AR-15 a suitable self-defense weapon, logically it may be equally suitable for law abiding citizens. Their bad guys are no different than our bad guys. If a bad guy breaks into your home, you cant wait for the police to arrive with their AR-15s. So, citizens rightfully may choose to have their own AR-15s.

During the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles, there was a section of town where Koreans owned a number of retail stores. The ONLY stores that did not get looted were the ones guarded by their owners, armed with modern sporting rifles.

I have an AR-15 because I want one. I hope I never actually *need* it(or any other gun).
"


Sporting rifle is much more accurate terminology but the media has stuck *assault rifle* to the AR-15 platform and the general public bought into it...



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  #207  
Old June 16th, 2016, 01:20 PM
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on that note, it's clear in the law that if a citizen must shoot for self defense, then they must shoot with lethal intent. you have the law on your side if you are in fear for your life and you kill the assaulter. the law does not support shooting to wound. that said, for self defense, it seems the law recommends for self defense, to choose the most lethal weapon available. shooting with a 22 cal is shooting to wound.

moral of the story: the legal system wants citizens when threatened to blow the assailant's damn head off. Deadmen tell no tails, and cost less on taxpayers in public litigation. AR-15 was made for that.
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  #208  
Old June 16th, 2016, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
on that note, it's clear in the law that if a citizen must shoot for self defense, then they must shoot with lethal intent. you have the law on your side if you are in fear for your life and you kill the assaulter. the law does not support shooting to wound. that said, for self defense, it seems the law recommends for self defense, to choose the most lethal weapon available. shooting with a 22 cal is shooting to wound.

moral of the story: the legal system wants citizens when threatened to blow the assailant's damn head off. Deadmen tell no tails, and cost less on taxpayers in public litigation. AR-15 was made for that.
So was my .338 Lapua
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  #209  
Old June 16th, 2016, 01:38 PM
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Priceless inaccurate tweet by a guy who doesn't realize that his fork is more dangerous to him than any weapon out there.
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  #210  
Old June 16th, 2016, 01:39 PM
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  #211  
Old June 16th, 2016, 02:10 PM
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I find it funny when people with. I experience on certain subjects even comment. Like Mr. MOORE.. as well as others on the Assault Rifle. AR stands for Armalite Rifles people. They invented the AR.

If you change the furniture on the AR then it's. It considered an Assault Rifle. Ha ha so classic, but it looks so scary and it's all black! A modern hunting rifle is more powerful than the standard AR. Take the collapsible stock off, change the pistol grip to a normal stocked rifle, change the forend to a wooden one and now it's legal and safe. Love the logic on that one. Just because of looks people blame the Assault Rifle. I wonder where that name came from? Honestly I ask. Is it because it's used in or for assaults?

Why don't they rename the handgun that police use. They use them to assault if needs be?
Interesting thought.

Yes everyone should own an AR, best modern , adaptable rifle around. It's like a nice Defender. You can change it up and configure it any way you like it

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
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  #212  
Old June 16th, 2016, 02:33 PM
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I think most gun control measures are knee jerk reactions to events that gets everyone riled up. However, I don't understand the resistance to background checks, waiting periods and keeping people with mental issues away from guns. We used to have to wait 5 days to buy a handgun and 3 for a rifle. The last handgun I bought I only had to wait about an hour for the background check to come back and out the door I went.

When I was younger in Illinois I needed a FOID card to buy a gun or ammo. I had one before I got my drivers license and it was a sense of pride for me to have this card. Had my picture on it and everything.
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  #213  
Old June 16th, 2016, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigd View Post
I think most gun control measures are knee jerk reactions to events that gets everyone riled up. However, I don't understand the resistance to background checks, waiting periods and keeping people with mental issues away from guns. We used to have to wait 5 days to buy a handgun and 3 for a rifle. The last handgun I bought I only had to wait about an hour for the background check to come back and out the door I went.

When I was younger in Illinois I needed a FOID card to buy a gun or ammo. I had one before I got my drivers license and it was a sense of pride for me to have this card. Had my picture on it and everything.
For background checks to be effective they need to be done at a Federal level and collate information from many agencies ... they would hence also be a defacto record of who has guns and presumably ammo.

I guess a lot of people are willing to accept a background check ... the issue is the way it would have to be executed is the very definition of big government surveillance and thus you have a catch 22.
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  #214  
Old June 16th, 2016, 02:48 PM
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Jason,
Background checks are handled by the FBI per federal law.
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  #215  
Old June 16th, 2016, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigd View Post
I think most gun control measures are knee jerk reactions to events that gets everyone riled up. However, I don't understand the resistance to background checks, waiting periods and keeping people with mental issues away from guns. We used to have to wait 5 days to buy a handgun and 3 for a rifle. The last handgun I bought I only had to wait about an hour for the background check to come back and out the door I went.

When I was younger in Illinois I needed a FOID card to buy a gun or ammo. I had one before I got my drivers license and it was a sense of pride for me to have this card. Had my picture on it and everything.
I'm in CA and we have to wait 10 days... there have been studies that show the "Cooling Off period" have done nothing. If someone is crazy enough and wants to kill, 10 days will help them plan it better, won't stop the criminal. So basically I see your point, but being here in CA , it makes no difference.

If you were on a list at all, I can see an additional approval process, if timely. Issue then becomes this, adding more government and spending by them

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
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  #216  
Old June 16th, 2016, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Another:
Dave,
I have a general rule to not take anyone seriously that was parodied in the movie "Team America".

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  #217  
Old June 16th, 2016, 04:13 PM
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and then i read something like this and I'm reminded yet again that the only thing California and Arizona share is a border.

John McCain: Obama 'directly responsible' for Orlando - CNNPolitics.com
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  #218  
Old June 16th, 2016, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
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Jason,
Background checks are handled by the FBI per federal law.
So the resistance is about increasing the scope of the checks to include other data sources ... like the no fly list?
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  #219  
Old June 16th, 2016, 04:52 PM
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No fly list of terror watch list is convicting some one without a court of law and Denny said persons rights with no evidence nevermind a trial.

Hell fucking 3 year olds have made the no fly list its nurs

What happens to innocent till proven guilty?
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  #220  
Old June 16th, 2016, 04:55 PM
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So the resistance is about increasing the scope of the checks to include other data sources ... like the no fly list?
I'm not sure what your point is regarding resistance. This clown was on several lists but apparently there is a time limit as to being on the list or how long it is shared. He also worked as a security subcontractor for DHS while on the list.
One issue I could think of is people are mistakenly placed on the list all the time and getting off of it is tough. Ted Kennedy was on the list for quite a while and he was a senator w/ a security clearance. I have a very common name and because of that I raised a red flag every time I traveled for the first two years after 9-11. If you knew about me and my background it makes it even more comical. My point is there is no real appeal process if you are mistakenly placed on this list and if you are on there by mistake should you be required to suspend your Constitutional rights till some bureaucrat fixes it?
As for the FBI check itself it yields 3 different results.
1) Cleared - Transfer the gun to the customer
2) Denied - Don't transfer the gun
3) Delay - The FBI gets 5 days to approve or deny the purchase Explination

If somebody is on the watch list hopefully somebody is actually minding the store and conducting further checks. Sounds like this didn't even get a delay.
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