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  #1  
Old December 11th, 2012, 09:22 PM
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Oregon Shooting

This is crazy

http://news.yahoo.com/3-dead-includi...014507348.html
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  #2  
Old December 11th, 2012, 09:52 PM
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right now they're saying 3 dead, 2 killed, then shooter killed himself.

horrible, but considering the circumstances it could have been so much worse. crazy...
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  #3  
Old December 11th, 2012, 09:57 PM
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Hmm, tragic and insane. No gun law could of stopped this.
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  #4  
Old December 11th, 2012, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
Hmm, tragic and insane. No gun law could of stopped this.
For a person from a country with some of the strictest gun regulation in the world ... And never had to face repeated events like this .. What's the answer? Is there an answer?

I'm trying not to be an a-hole ... I'm genuinely interested to know what what people think could be done.

Up front guns scare the shit out of me ... But I can see the attraction ... Cool technology ... Precision manufacturing ... Neal's photo collections ..
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  #5  
Old December 11th, 2012, 10:58 PM
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I was just there at the REI store.
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  #6  
Old December 11th, 2012, 11:36 PM
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A deterrent model works.

What about me though .... As a foreign national should I be expected to carry a weapon?
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  #7  
Old December 11th, 2012, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbriggs View Post
i think the answer is honest gun education/safety. The anti gun propaganda only incites fear. If everyone was comfortable with guns and carried one, alot of these wacko's would think twice.

-jeff
x1000
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  #8  
Old December 11th, 2012, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post

I think the answer is honest gun education/safety. The anti gun propaganda only incites fear. If everyone was comfortable with guns and carried one, alot of these wacko's would think twice.

-Jeff
Amen to that
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  #9  
Old December 12th, 2012, 12:07 AM
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Court Backs Loaded Guns in Public


Americans have a constitutional right to carry loaded guns outside their homes, a federal appeals court said Tuesday, striking down an Illinois law and potentially teeing up the Supreme Court's next major Second Amendment case.
In a 2-1 ruling, the Seventh U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the Illinois legislature acted unconstitutionally decades ago when it barred people other than law enforcement from carrying a loaded gun outside the home or carrying unloaded guns that can easily be reached.
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Getty Images This Ruger revolver for sale in a Tinley Park, Ill., store couldn't be carried loaded in public under an Illinois law.



The court said the right to carry loaded weapons comes from the Second Amendment's plain text, which states that "a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"To speak of 'bearing' arms within one's home would at all times have been an awkward usage," Judge Richard Posner wrote for the majority. "A right to bear arms thus implies a right to carry a loaded gun outside the home."
The Supreme Court in 2008, in District of Columbia v. Heller, recognized an individual's right to keep and bear arms. But in their opinion, the justices offered limited guidance on whether restrictions on carrying a gun outside the home might violate the Second Amendment.
Some lower courts have interpreted the decision as not extending any right to carry guns outside the home. A decision by the influential Seventh Circuit could prompt judges around the country to view restrictions on carrying a gun more skeptically.
The Second Circuit recently upheld a New York state law limiting licenses to carry a concealed weapon. Challenges to "carry restrictions" are pending in at least three other circuits.
"Until the Supreme Court rules definitely on this issue, there will continue to be disagreement between the circuits about the scope of the Second Amendment outside the home," said David Jensen, who represented Illinois residents challenging that state's law. Illinois was the only state to maintain a flat ban on carrying loaded guns outside the home.
Alan Gura, another lawyer for the Illinois plaintiffs, said the Supreme Court recognized that states have a role to play in regulating the right to bear arms for self-defense. "But a law that totally prohibits or which leaves it up to the unbridled discretion of a licensing official to determine whether you get to enjoy something that is your right isn't going to fly," he said.
Chris W. Cox, executive director of National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, called the Seventh Circuit ruling a victory "for law-abiding Illinoisans—and for everyone who understands that the Second Amendment protects the right both to keep arms, and to bear arms."
Judge Ann Claire Williams, who dissented in the Tuesday opinion, said she would have deferred to the state legislature absent "clearer indication" that the Second Amendment enshrines a right to carry arms in public for self-defense.
The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, which filed a brief in support of the law, argued that the Second Amendment "properly understood" allows states to prohibit people from carrying guns outside their homes. "Neither Heller nor the historical record undermine the longstanding…authority of states to restrict or prohibit public carrying of guns," the brief said.
The appeals court said the ruling won't take effect for 180 days to give the state legislature time to craft a new law with "reasonable limitations" on the carrying of guns in public.
A spokeswoman for Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan, whose office defended the law in court, said she was weighing next steps.

From todays WSJ-
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  #10  
Old December 12th, 2012, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post

I think the answer is honest gun education/safety. The anti gun propaganda only incites fear. If everyone was comfortable with guns and carried one, alot of these wacko's would think twice.

-Jeff
Very well said
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  #11  
Old December 12th, 2012, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post

I think the answer is honest gun education/safety. The anti gun propaganda only incites fear. If everyone was comfortable with guns and carried one, alot of these wacko's would think twice.

-Jeff
The only problem is that wacko's aren't interested in thinking about the consequences of their actions to others. Rather they are only interested in satisfying their own perceived needs.
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  #12  
Old December 12th, 2012, 07:09 AM
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IMO
There should be mandatory testing for people to become parents.

Then they need to revamp the 5150 (Involuntary psychiatric hold) laws to give shrinks or others more power to hold someone. I bet in time it comes out this person had made threats that doctors couldn't do anything about and parents just ignored.
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  #13  
Old December 12th, 2012, 07:22 AM
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Gun laws.. right to bear.. blah blah blah.. this guy was sick, as is/were others who commit atrocities like this. No guns laws, education or therapy will heal these people, if they want to kill others and themselves they will find a way to make their mark, using a gun is the cowardly/lazy way of doing it. This unfortunately is the reality of the situation not whether we should or shouldn't are or are not capable of owning/carrying a firearm.
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  #14  
Old December 12th, 2012, 07:38 AM
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Had a similar circumstance here in our Trolley Square Mall. Off duty police officer put him down IIRC - Mall had a no guns inside policy.
Disclaimer: I did not have time to read this so not sure of how accurate it is...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting

There is no easy answer...lunatics will be lunatics and will find a way.

Sensitive subject, and I wish there was an answer.
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  #15  
Old December 12th, 2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell View Post
IMO
There should be mandatory testing for people to become parents.

Then they need to revamp the 5150 (Involuntary psychiatric hold) laws to give shrinks or others more power to hold someone. I bet in time it comes out this person had made threats that doctors couldn't do anything about and parents just ignored.
And mandatory testing to have a gun?
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  #16  
Old December 12th, 2012, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
And mandatory testing to have a gun?
Nah,

Just to many fu%king people with ZERO accountability breeding. People are the problem IMO.

Parents..." I had no idea my son had 20 guns and assault weapons in his room."
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  #17  
Old December 12th, 2012, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
I think the answer is honest gun education/safety. The anti gun propaganda only incites fear. If everyone was comfortable with guns and carried one, alot of these wacko's would think twice.

-Jeff
This.
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  #18  
Old December 12th, 2012, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
I think the answer is honest gun education/safety. The anti gun propaganda only incites fear. If everyone was comfortable with guns and carried one, alot of these wacko's would think twice.

-Jeff

I also agree..
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  #19  
Old December 12th, 2012, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
I think the answer is honest gun education/safety. The anti gun propaganda only incites fear. If everyone was comfortable with guns and carried one, alot of these wacko's would think twice.

-Jeff

Sounds nice at a glance but this wacko went out to kill people and then himself, why would the prospect of getting killed first by an armed bystander made any difference? If you are prepared to kill yourself you are prepared to be killed by someone else.
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  #20  
Old December 12th, 2012, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by crown14 View Post
Sounds nice at a glance but this wacko went out to kill people and then himself, why would the prospect of getting killed first by an armed bystander made any difference? If you are prepared to kill yourself you are prepared to be killed by someone else.

The difference would be that innocent people would be saved... Once he started shooting, an armed citizen could put him down and stop the attack.

Not to mention, we would not need to have a long drawn out trial, a controversial death sentence and a 15 year jail term before, gently, quietly, peacefully killing him with a needle in his arm.
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