Operation Get Kent aka 85Red110 His Truck Back!!! - Page 3 - Defender Source
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  #41  
Old April 18th, 2014, 05:06 AM
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Getting the truck back should be the priority. Nothing else.
Afaik, it's fully legal, titled etc in Kent's name.
I am sure there is case law on the subject of wrongful seizure of property by the Feds and also orders on its return.
It likely will take the filing of a legal action in Federal court seeking firstly to declare that the truck is legally a US Resident and therefore secondly that it should be returned.
The danger there is that should the court state it is not a legal resident, then the Feds will have won and Kent's truck will likely end up as a ball of metal.
The fact that it's wrapped up in a bigger cloak of DrAaron business is going to make things tougher.
So let Kent tread softly. Get the US government to specifically state their legal basis for seizing the truck and then move in the appropriate direction.
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  #42  
Old April 18th, 2014, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Getting the truck back should be the priority. Nothing else. Afaik, it's fully legal, titled etc in Kent's name. I am sure there is case law on the subject of wrongful seizure of property by the Feds and also orders on its return. It likely will take the filing of a legal action in Federal court seeking firstly to declare that the truck is legally a US Resident and therefore secondly that it should be returned. The danger there is that should the court state it is not a legal resident, then the Feds will have won and Kent's truck will likely end up as a ball of metal. The fact that it's wrapped up in a bigger cloak of DrAaron business is going to make things tougher. So let Kent tread softly. Get the US government to specifically state their legal basis for seizing the truck and then move in the appropriate direction.
The truck will not be released until the case is closed (post court action, no charges, post grand jury, etc). It's evidence, regardless of whether it's legal or not.

Think of it as your iPad seized at a buddies house accused of child porn.
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  #43  
Old April 18th, 2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
The truck will not be released until the case is closed (post court action, no charges, post grand jury, etc). It's evidence, regardless of whether it's legal or not.

Think of it as your iPad seized at a buddies house accused of child porn.
Interesting comparison
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  #44  
Old April 18th, 2014, 09:03 AM
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can we set up a fund to help pay for lawyer? Not sure the proper way of doing it. Something like paypal or something for Ken?
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  #45  
Old April 18th, 2014, 11:08 AM
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I know there are ton's of details on this spread out over several threads but it seems to me the following:

1. The truck is a legal import, meaning it would not have been held up in CBP were it to come in on a ship today.

2. The truck is owned by our friend who is trying to recover it, it has been paid in full, it has his name on a TITLE? and had the unfortunate occurrence to be sitting on a lot when vehicles were seized?

3. The CBP has appropriated the vehicle as 'evidence' of grey market importation?

Again I would re-read through the posts but you all seem to be following this very closely so if someone could give me a quick yes or no on the above questions I would consider myself informed.
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  #46  
Old April 18th, 2014, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
I know there are ton's of details on this spread out over several threads but it seems to me the following:

1. The truck is a legal import, meaning it would not have been held up in CBP were it to come in on a ship today.

2. The truck is owned by our friend who is trying to recover it, it has been paid in full, it has his name on a TITLE? and had the unfortunate occurrence to be sitting on a lot when vehicles were seized?

3. The CBP has appropriated the vehicle as 'evidence' of grey market importation?

Again I would re-read through the posts but you all seem to be following this very closely so if someone could give me a quick yes or no on the above questions I would consider myself informed.
I've been following this since the beginning and I think all three assumptions are correct.

I don't know if Kent ever had the truck titled or if the title is in his posession now.
My understanding (or assumption) of the situation is that it is a simple posession issue meaning that if the truck were released to his posession all would be good. I don't know the stautus of the case itself, perhaps they are waiting to release the truck until after the conclusion of the trial. That I don't know anything about. However, to those that commented on the shop from where it was seized...I don't know if there has been any communication or offers to help and I won't jump to any conclusions on that, but if I were being prosecuted by the Federal Government I certaintly would not be speaking about any of the relevant issues on here (or anywhere else for that matter). Maybe that's why he's been quiet...I don't know. Maybe his hands are tied?

Not saying that building a new truck is a bad idea at all, but I think the resources of this board would be better utilized by helping him sort through the legal system. Whether that involves starting a parts purge thread/fund to help with legal costs or maybe it involves time expertise of legal minds within the community.

The intent is definately here to help, but we should figure out the best way to use this (the D-90 community) resource. I'm willing to help somehow, just want to know what the plan is first.
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  #47  
Old April 18th, 2014, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
I know there are ton's of details on this spread out over several threads but it seems to me the following:

1. The truck is a legal import, meaning it would not have been held up in CBP were it to come in on a ship today.

2. The truck is owned by our friend who is trying to recover it, it has been paid in full, it has his name on a TITLE? and had the unfortunate occurrence to be sitting on a lot when vehicles were seized?

3. The CBP has appropriated the vehicle as 'evidence' of grey market importation?

Again I would re-read through the posts but you all seem to be following this very closely so if someone could give me a quick yes or no on the above questions I would consider myself informed.
Caveat: not a lawyer, and not Fed/State/Local LE...but have dealt with conducting raids, chain of evidence, and the like in another capacity.

1. Can't speak to this. Kent may be able to, but were I him I wouldn't comment on a public forum about it given that it is still in the midst of legal action.
2. Seems like it, and when you conduct something like this you don't parse out what is whose on the lot; you take all of it and sort that out later. Doing anything less opens you up to a defense lawyer's picking apart procedures. So unfortunately our colleague fell victim to the truck being at the wrong place, wrong time.
3. Not being CBP, I would say they would characterize what they have done is seized evidence in conjunction with an ongoing investigation into a variety of crimes.

As Jon said in his post, its like having an ipad at a friend's house who gets raided for something like child porn. The ipad is getting bagged and tagged, you may see it one day after due process has worked its course but that is not a quick process by any stretch.

With all the above I'm very sympathetic to the individual in this case's plight as I noted in my initial post of the thread, and happy to donate to a fund to help him find the right legal entry into trying to get his property back as the government works through this, but I don't have a lot of faith that its going to get peeled away from the rest of the impounds prior to the case being closed out.
r-
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  #48  
Old April 18th, 2014, 12:44 PM
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If Will H. or someone wants to go after the .gov, I will chip in for legal fees.
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  #49  
Old April 18th, 2014, 12:47 PM
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I've got drivetrain parts and/or a few $$$ to throw at a legal fund.
Shitty situation.
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  #50  
Old April 18th, 2014, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
3. Not being CBP, I would say they would characterize what they have done is seized evidence in conjunction with an ongoing investigation into a variety of crimes.

As Jon said in his post, its like having an ipad at a friend's house who gets raided for something like child porn. The ipad is getting bagged and tagged, you may see it one day after due process has worked its course but that is not a quick process by any stretch.

......... but I don't have a lot of faith that its going to get peeled away from the rest of the impounds prior to the case being closed out.
r-
Ray
I think this is sorta what I was trying to say. They had the "right" to seize it based on the law (whether we think it's right or not) as it could (in their eyes) be evidence.
The lap-top/iPad analogy is perfect as well. It sucks. Wrong place, wrong time.

So as this all relates to this thread, does anyone know the status of the case? I know that is a different thread, but it directly impacts any actions we may take in this thread. i.e. if the case has a trial date in three months it may be over then. Why build a new truck? Instead, maybe start a fund/kickstarter whatever to get his 110 "refreshed" and 100% when it does become available. these are just suggestions and I'm not trying to step on the thread or the intent. Let's not put the cart ahead of the horse here.
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  #51  
Old April 18th, 2014, 01:47 PM
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I like the iPad analogy as well.
But as I said I bet there is case law on the subject applicable to the Federal district that NC gals into.
Case law may merely state that it's your bad luck. Get over it.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

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  #52  
Old April 18th, 2014, 02:07 PM
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I'm in tanks. there's nothing covert about tanks. when you send in tanks, you want everyone to know we're coming
You and Capt Mclean/Ontheway should cook up a plan using the tools @ your disposal...
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  #53  
Old April 18th, 2014, 02:31 PM
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I think it valiant of a forum to come together for another board member.
I do not see mention in this thread of a truck to be restored. That should be the first aquisition so you could see what you have to work with. You cannot restore a truck from nothing.

I can offer good used doors for a build and may have other parts like front, middle and third row seats to help. I think I may have a hard top, front wings, bonnet and sides.

As far as the guessing at the status of a legal case. It is an ongoing case. Period.
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  #54  
Old April 18th, 2014, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Himalaya View Post
You cannot restore a truck from nothing.
You can build a nice driver from all used parts.
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  #55  
Old April 18th, 2014, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post

1. Can't speak to this. Kent may be able to, but were I him I wouldn't comment on a public forum about it given that it is still in the midst of legal action.

Ray

Bingo

------ Follow up post added April 18th, 2014 03:20 PM ------

And as far as the status of the case, all I am ever told when I check with the "authorities" is that "the investigation is ongoing".

Kent
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  #56  
Old April 18th, 2014, 03:49 PM
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LOL, you tankers. How are you going to get the truck out when you won't dismount? Engineers can get the truck back with a couple of bagalores, some det cord, and a roll of duct tape.
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  #57  
Old April 18th, 2014, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
I think this is sorta what I was trying to say. They had the "right" to seize it based on the law (whether we think it's right or not) as it could (in their eyes) be evidence. The lap-top/iPad analogy is perfect as well. It sucks. Wrong place, wrong time. So as this all relates to this thread, does anyone know the status of the case? I know that is a different thread, but it directly impacts any actions we may take in this thread. i.e. if the case has a trial date in three months it may be over then. Why build a new truck? Instead, maybe start a fund/kickstarter whatever to get his 110 "refreshed" and 100% when it does become available. these are just suggestions and I'm not trying to step on the thread or the intent. Let's not put the cart ahead of the horse here.
Except that he was a paying customer who left his vehicle in good faith at a BUSINESS.
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  #58  
Old April 18th, 2014, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SMac View Post
Except that he was a paying customer who left his vehicle in good faith at a BUSINESS.
agreed, I was just tryingto give someone the benefit of doubt, but I hear what you're saying too.

I think when the dust settles, Kent will fill us in on the details.

PS-last time I gave a member the benefit of doubt in a situation it was with werewolf (a/k/a Bahgdad Bob) first few insane postings. Look where that got all of us, so maybe no more speculating on the good in people, haha
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  #59  
Old April 18th, 2014, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
agreed, I was just tryingto give someone the benefit of doubt, but I hear what you're saying too. I think when the dust settles, Kent will fill us in on the details. PS-last time I gave a member the benefit of doubt in a situation it was with werewolf (a/k/a Bahgdad Bob) first few insane postings. Look where that got all of us, so maybe no more speculating on the good in people, haha
Im not bagging on the business, I dont know the facts. I was just pointing out a fairly large discrepancy in the analogy.

That said, I'll pitch in whatever for a fellow brother. Im only good at planning a shoot, shooting, and then preparing to plan a shoot again....
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  #60  
Old April 18th, 2014, 10:54 PM
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My question would be "What does my truck have to with this case/investigation and show me how you came to that conclusion/decision." Analogy - a person near the scene but not involved. If you can disprove that the truck had anything to do with illegality ..can it still be held as evidence?
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