"New Style" Cross Seals Shrunk - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 24th, 2016, 12:54 PM
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"New Style" Cross Seals Shrunk

A previous owner had installed the “new style” cross / crucifix seals in my vehicle just 4 years ago. I took off my bearing cap a few days ago to have a look at the rear main seal and found that the cross seals had shrunken a lot - probably 3/16” at the bottom.

Per the advice of some postings on this board am going to skip the seals this time and just fill the slots with the Rightstuff.

Just figured I would post this for people searching for info in the future about rear main seal leaks / cross seal leaks: what looks like a rear main seal leak could be coming from your cross / crucifix seals even if they have already been replaced.

Also, when you have the bearing cap off make sure your rear main seal is pushed all the way toward the engine before putting the cap back on. Don't know if this is possible but my rear main seal appeared to have slid back in the housing until it hit the flywheel (1st rear seal photo below). So I slid it back into position tight against the flange in the block (2nd rear seal photo below).
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  #2  
Old June 28th, 2016, 12:33 PM
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Following up on this now that I have put things back together: this fix worked like a charm. I had a leak coming from the wading plug hole that was the equivalent of a horse pissing on my feet every time I turned the engine off (it would build up in the flywheel housing and then all rush out after stopping). After repositioning the rear main seal and being very careful with the bearing cap sealing job the leak is completely gone. If you think you have a rear main seal leak it is worth dropping the oil pan and bearing cap to see if you can do the same - it only took about two hours of work which sure beats pulling and reinstalling the engine.
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Old June 28th, 2016, 09:06 PM
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great writeup...your experience with your rear main also seems to validate other reports that rear main seal leaks after replacement with a good part come from the rear main seal moving, not the dynamic seal itself failing.
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Old June 29th, 2016, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName View Post
Following up on this now that I have put things back together: this fix worked like a charm. I had a leak coming from the wading plug hole that was the equivalent of a horse pissing on my feet every time I turned the engine off (it would build up in the flywheel housing and then all rush out after stopping). After repositioning the rear main seal and being very careful with the bearing cap sealing job the leak is completely gone. If you think you have a rear main seal leak it is worth dropping the oil pan and bearing cap to see if you can do the same - it only took about two hours of work which sure beats pulling and reinstalling the engine.
Your the man if it only took you 2 hours for this job. It took me a lot longer. Do you think the rear main seal was out of position before you took the cap off?
My guess is while the engine is running, rear crank main is slinging the oil away behind the rear main seal, however when the engine stops, the crank is not rotating, the oil run down the inside of the engine, down the rear main and through the gap between the rear main and the rear main seal.
Either way, enjoy the leak free engine! Job well done.
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Old June 29th, 2016, 10:14 AM
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Thanks. I am fairly certain that the rear main was out of position before I started. I took the flywheel inspection plate off to see where the oil was coming from and I could see some of the red rear main seal when I looked up. Now that the seal is in the proper position I can't see it at all when looking up thru the inspection plate area.
I have to admit that I didn't time myself. I just snuck in some work here and there whenever my wife wasn't paying attention to what I was doing so that she would not complain that I wasn't cutting the lawn or doing all of the chores I have been avoiding. Seems like I spent the most time on cleaning up the surfaces of the cap and pan to make sure I could get a good seal when I put it back together. The bearing cap came off easily in my case.
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Old June 29th, 2016, 10:45 AM
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I always put some kind of sealant around the outside of rear main seals to help seal and hold them in place. Also, the t-seals need to be trimmed proud of the sealing flange to alleviate the shrinkage issue. It looks like those t-seals were damaged going in, probably done without the wedges along the sides that one uses to help guide them in. I'm sure the "right Stuff" solution works well, but I haven't been confident that I'm actually filling the channel completely so I continue to use t-seals. I think the cork ones were better than the new rubber type.

Good job on the repair, hope the seal stays in place and keeps working for you! Keep your breathers clear, excess crankcase pressure can push the seals out.
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Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
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Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
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  #7  
Old June 29th, 2016, 10:50 AM
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Yes, I am with Ren Ching I like using the seals but including right stuff all with them. But I have heard of all right stuff too. Good luck and good on you for the repair of Janey.
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Old June 29th, 2016, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
I always put some kind of sealant around the outside of rear main seals to help seal and hold them in place.

Keep your breathers clear, excess crankcase pressure can push the seals out.
I found that the engine breather was completely blocked up before I did this work, so crankcase pressure probably pushed the rear main out. The thing that confused me was that the leak was worse after I cleared the breather. But the seal was already out of whack, maybe the added air flow just made it easier for oil to run out somehow, or it was a fluke.
I debated putting sealant on the rear main and searched to see if anyone had success with that but could not find anything. So I decided not to do it in case I had to go back in to do more surgery - I figured cleaning it up without separating the transmission might be difficult. But I would certainly do it next time now that I know it works.
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