New Rover 9in almost ready - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old October 27th, 2003, 12:05 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
New Rover 9in almost ready

Check out the Rover 9in almost ready to drop!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	axle1.jpg
Views:	428
Size:	69.5 KB
ID:	63  
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old October 27th, 2003, 12:06 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Another
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	axle2.jpg
Views:	357
Size:	54.1 KB
ID:	64  
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old October 27th, 2003, 12:06 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
one more
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	axle3.jpg
Views:	359
Size:	62.6 KB
ID:	65  
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old October 27th, 2003, 12:07 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
last one
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	axle4.jpg
Views:	355
Size:	49.5 KB
ID:	66  
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old October 27th, 2003, 12:57 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Online
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,526
Registry
that gonna be a high pinion diff?
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old October 27th, 2003, 12:59 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Nope,

It is a little known fact that the high pinion stuff is an 8.8in R+P. Strong and people have had good results but a regular 9in many feel is as strong as the D-60 r+p, just a whole heck of a lot higher off the ground and lighter.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old October 27th, 2003, 01:29 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Online
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,526
Registry
ahhh..
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old October 27th, 2003, 08:54 PM
TwisteD90's Avatar
TwisteD90
Status: Offline
Yousef Hamzeh
06 RR SC, 06 LR3, 94 D90
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Colorado & Kuwait
Posts: 1,862
Looks sweet David Now let's see which one will break first your 9" or my Salisbury

BTW, what size gears are you going with?
__________________
World traveler
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old October 28th, 2003, 12:24 AM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
"Looks sweet David Now let's see which one will break first your 9" or my Salisbury"

Well,

If you go with 40's, yours, if you go with 37s, mine. With the power I have and small measuring 37's it will be very hard for me to break this. Especially with all the high tech junk. As to gears we are kinda stuck between 4.37s and 4.56. I don't trailer so I want to be able to cruise at 70 without winding the motor.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old October 28th, 2003, 11:29 AM
redrover

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
drop in

Hey Buck/David, what kind of contol arm setup are you fabricating? A-arm and control arms ,or 4-link? Looks sweet.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old October 28th, 2003, 11:37 AM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Hey,

Do you mean for the front or the rear? The rear is going to follow a stock set up with all new links made out of some nearly impossible to break junk. Very beefey. The front, well that is top secret. Part of it rymes with soilover. I will post picts soon.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old October 28th, 2003, 01:11 PM
comac90
Status: Offline
Troy McNeill
Always looking...
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 32
i've had a few discussions lately with people trying to convince me that a ford 9" is as strong or stronger than a 60.

so far, i'm not convinced. so, please, if someone has a good argument, convince me....

the 9" does have a pinion support bearing (which is a great design, i might add), but that only helps with pinion deflection being a cause breakage. everything about a 60 (or Sals) r&p is bigger. assuming same materials, a 9" is going to break before a 60. anyway you cut it, a 60 is stronger. ...&, FWIW, all things being equal, my opinion is a 60 will handle 40s as well as a 9" will handle 37s.

so just for the record, here are the specs of each.
Dana 60
Ring Gear Diameter: 9 3/4
Pinion Shaft Diameter: 1.625"
Ring Gear Bolts: (12) RH Thread 1/2" X 20
Pinion Splines: 29
Cover Bolts: 10

Ring Gear Diameter: 9"
Pinion Shaft Diameter: 1.313"
Ring Gear Bolts: (10) RH Thread 7/16" X 20
Pinion Splines: 28
Cover Bolts: 10

i, also, don't get this thing of lightweight axles being a big issue on a rockcrawler outside of competition (& even then i have some questions to a point). yes, the OVERALL weight of the vehicle may make a difference as to whether or not you'll get over something. but, higher unsprung weights lower your vehicle's CG & gives you better stability.

also, you generally don't want those higher weights in the wheels because of the increased angular momentum & decrease in perceived engine power it causes .... especially on a rover. that only leaves the axles as the 'good' place to "add" unsprung weight without affecting performance.

anyone got any insight to impart?
T
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old October 28th, 2003, 01:19 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
I pulled this off the web.

Why you need a Ford 9"

Although the basic bigger is better and size matters points are still strong arguments in the wheeling community, there is more to the Ford 9" than its size. The pinion is larger than the standard Dana 60, and that fact alone means more strength and less chance of damage. The Ford 9" ring gear is also thicker (although smaller in diameter) than the Dana 60 ring gear, which again, means more strength and less worry. Ground clearance is another advantage to a 9", and a shaved 9" has even greater clearance, Click here to see a comparison. Go to any NHRA, SCORE, NASCAR, or Local dirt track event and look under the rear of all of the vehicles. There is a reason drag racers and hotrod enthusiasts alike have trusted the Ford 9" for years, and here are a few of them.
Note: despite its size, the Ford 9" system is lighter than the Dana system.


Left to right: Dana 30, Dana 44, Dana 60, Ford 9" pinions On comparison of the pinions one of the first things you will notice is the additional pinion support extending from (in this picture) the lower end of the pinion. This feature helps reduce the level of stress on the pinion.
Note: the Ford 9" pinion enters the ring gear at a lower point, which also provides better strength and stability than the standard Dana 60.

The angle of the teeth on the Ford 9" pinion is at a greater degree than that of the Dana series. This creates a larger contact area on the ring gear and greater tooth engagement; the area that stress is divided over is larger which means less stress on any particular area.
Left to right: Dana 30, Dana 44, Dana 60, Ford 9" pinions

Top comparison of main caps The main caps in the differential are another strong point of the Ford 9" system. They are the main link between the differential and the case on a Ford 9", or the housing and the case on a Dana. Notice the difference in size and structure between the cast iron of the Dana and the forged steel of the Ford 9" main cap.
The modular design of the Ford 9" is an often overlooked advantage. The main caps on a Dana design are an integrated part of the entire axle housing. This means that if a Dana main cap fails, the whole housing becomes worthless. The Ford drop out 3rd member (pictured below) contains the ring and pinion and the differential held in by the main caps. If the main cap fails you can replace the 3rd member and you are back on the trail.
Side comparison of main caps

Nodular Ford 3rd Member

...

Technical note on the rear Dana 60 reverse ring and pinion system
The problem with the 'Dana 60 reverse ring and pinion in the rear' setup is that it is literally being run backwards. These gear sets are loading on the coast side of the gear teeth when run backwards. Assuming that the axle assembly is delivering 5500 foot pounds of torque to the axles (the Dana 60's official maximum rating), the separation force exerted on the driver side carrier bearing is approximately 7300 pounds. That is ~175% of the load that would be found if the axle was used as Dana/Spicer designed it. This extreme load can cause many problems.


This is a good 9in arguement that I found. This arguement is a lot like Ford vs Chevy, which is better and there are arguements on both sides. Unsprung weight is almost never good. Especially with underpowered Defenders. Tire weight is a fighting matter. Many comp guys fill thier tires with water or sand to increase the tire weight. People should keep in mind that the most successful rock crawler of all time Jon Bundrant is running custom 9's.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:05 PM
TwisteD90's Avatar
TwisteD90
Status: Offline
Yousef Hamzeh
06 RR SC, 06 LR3, 94 D90
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Colorado & Kuwait
Posts: 1,862
Thumbs up

Salisbury Dana60 or Ford 9" it really doesn't matter. The point is there are two guys in the market that gave us an option besides modifying the stock D90 housing and I appreciate that

NSO and Rover Tracks guys keep up the awesome work
__________________
World traveler
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:11 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Totally right,

And it is important to note that my axle will be weaker than a d-60 with 35 spline axles. I have 31 spline 1.37in axles so those are the weak link for me. It will be way stronger than a stock d-60 but weaker than a pimped out d-60. Billsters is every bit as strong as any D-60 except for maybe the camo 60/40
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:51 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Online
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,526
Registry
just about all the drag racers I have talked to run 9" thats most def worth something. do the 60's have c clips?
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old October 28th, 2003, 02:59 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
I'll get back to you on that, turns out my house might be close to being burned down so I gotta go!
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old October 28th, 2003, 07:52 PM
comac90
Status: Offline
Troy McNeill
Always looking...
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 32
dave-
those are some great points & help to increase the general knowledge base here. i'll respond to some of those when i have some more time, but a couple of quick things....

first, be safe. you're in our thoughts & i hope everything works out with your house.

2nd, no, 60s do not have c-clips.

3rd, there was a mention of NSO & RT. its in no way my intent for this discussion to come across as a NSO vs RT thing. I personally know KC. He makes an awesome product & is a great guy. I almost even bought a Rover9 myself.

it IS my intent, though, to get some solid understanding of the differences between the 2 most popular axle conversions being done on ALL 4WD vehicles right now ... the Dana 60 & the 9".

T
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old October 28th, 2003, 11:08 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Thanks a lot Troy,

It turns out the winds took the fires out east and north from my house. I was never that close. For a second there the news said that the wind was blowing hard west and the largest fire at that time was about 4 miles east from my house so I jammed here to grab stuf and water it down but it turned again. Few, I hope all the other San Diegans on the list are doing alright as well. Don't worry at all about any NSO Rovertrax type bad anything at all. I dig both of the options and it took a lot of time to make my decision to go where I did and I still hope I made the right choice. A whole lot of wheeling is the only way to tell for sure. I even got the Salsbury option all dialed in with GBR before heading in a different direction. A lot of the motivation for my decision was that at the time, KC had the only good option that I knew of for the front end. I was even seconds away from buying the elusive coiler front Salsbury. Plus, KC was real good to me on the phone. It came down to clearance and weight. If I ever go bigger on the tires I will will probably end up with the 35 splines then anyway! Thanks again!
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old October 29th, 2003, 11:40 PM
revor's Avatar
revor
Status: Offline
Keith Kreutzer
Old beat up 110
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Posts: 998
This is going to turn into the Pirate Thread real soon
Hee Hee

Hows the Fire Dave? Still Safe I presume? Hope so...

It's gonna be fun to get all this junk together and find that no one breaks.. What a nice trip that will be...
Really we should all find a common location (middle of some desert, for the safety of others) Order pizza and beer eat like mad drink beer enjoy a fire and realize we're all just doing the same thing only different... After loss of much breath.

Oh yeah... Last guy standing has the strongest axle...

Hee Hee..

I hope it all works as portals and Rockwells are to heavy for me to F--k with!

Later
Gotta go watch our fire now ... (only 6000 acres as of yet)

Keith
__________________
Keith

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Big, Red and ... aaa Red..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Famous Land Rover owners Lindy Misc. Chit-Chat 4 June 15th, 2009 08:49 PM
Good Bye Ford, Hello Tata... It's done. JFD Misc. Chit-Chat 46 April 3rd, 2008 02:49 PM
Land Rover family tree D901619 Defender Technical Discussions 9 July 5th, 2007 04:34 PM
1994 Land Rover Discovery, ready for off road SBA For Sale - Vehicles 4 August 24th, 2005 11:28 AM
Expedition Ready Range Rover RedRhinoProducts For Sale - Vehicles 0 September 19th, 2004 01:12 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:55 AM.


Copyright