New Diesels in American cars, finally - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 22nd, 2013, 07:21 AM
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New Diesels in American cars, finally

Well 2014 is going to be good for Diesels. 2014 Dodge Ram 1500 3.0L V-6, 2014 Grand Cherokee 3.0L V-6. Same engine in both, 400+ pounds torque and 30 MPG?
Chevrolet is getting into it too with a diesel in the Cruze, 2.0L
Of Course you still have the diesels in the MB products, Audi SUV, BMW X-5, and VW Tourag, and cars. VW is also hinting of a diesel in the small SUV .

So where is the Diesels in our beloved Land/Range Rovers?

Now can we hope that they will get the diesel prices down????
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  #2  
Old February 22nd, 2013, 07:30 AM
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That means diesel prices will go up. More demand - same supply.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 07:43 AM
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has to go up before it can come down. If the market demand supports light duty diesels in passenger cars ( and the automakers are easing into this experiment slowly), then these cars over time will start to migrate diesel sales and cannibalize gas sales at the same time. short term increase in diesel prices until the oil companies start shifting their production.

This is now one of those tipping points that the federal govt can tip either way with a new energy policy. Many automakers were about to introduce a light duty diesel version right around when Katrina happened and the fuel prices spiked. Right after that, the FED mandated ULSD and then all the automakers dropped and ran.

I'm encourage by the fact that they are doing this now knowing that diesel is still more expensive than gas in this country. Maybe the've determined that the new policy that Obama is starting to talk about with further increasing MPG mandates in new cars means that the automakers have determined that it will be to expensive/difficult to get that out of gas engines. Just speculating.

I think we are on the dawn of a new age of diesel in America. If so, maybe we'll finally join the rest of the world in primary fuel type. What's next, metric system?
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  #4  
Old February 22nd, 2013, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
That means diesel prices will go up. More demand - same supply.
As the fed and treasury print money with no backing just to lend to China, the dollar is worth less and less on the world markets.

Since oil is world priced, the domestic price at the pump should have doubled by now,
BUT
the price of gasoline has been artificially low because oil companies have raised the price of diesel to subsidize the pump price of gasoline. This coupled with increased domestic oil production has keep the pump price of gasoline lower than it should be under "normal" market conditions.

As long as folks have bud and football and gasoline is not too highly priced no one knows the difference. Most are ignorant of these manipulated conditions that are building an economic house of cards.

It's good to see some more diesels on the market. BMW has had them for years, here in USA, just in small quantities.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 08:01 AM
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If Ford introduces the V8 turbo diesel used in the Range Rover, wonder if Land Rover would start to ship those over.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
As the fed and treasury print money with no backing just to lend to China, the dollar is worth less and less on the world markets.

Since oil is world priced, the domestic price at the pump should have doubled by now,
BUT
the price of gasoline has been artificially low because oil companies have raised the price of diesel to subsidize the pump price of gasoline. This coupled with increased domestic oil production has keep the pump price of gasoline lower than it should be under "normal" market conditions.

As long as folks have bud and football and gasoline is not too highly priced no one knows the difference. Most are ignorant of these manipulated conditions that are building an economic house of cards.

It's good to see some more diesels on the market. BMW has had them for years, here in USA, just in small quantities.
Seriously, these conspiracy theories are pretty darn funny. When prices are up, it's manipulation. When prices are down, it's manipulation.

I really don't get the comment that "increased domestic oil production has keep the pump price of gasoline lower than it should be under "normal" market conditions". What? That is normal market conditions. Econ 101. Be thankful that as a nation we have access to a plethora of natural resources.

Our domestic blessings aside, the global wholesale crude oil price is what it is (for those nations that don't have their own natural resources). However, from there, a whole host of local factors affect the price of motor fuel. Chief amongst them are taxes, which are massive in places like the UK and Europe. Contrast that with a place like Venezuela that is awash with oil and has a leader that attempts to placate the populace by subsidizing the price of fuel such that the retail price is 6 cents per gallon.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
As the fed and treasury print money with no backing just to lend to China, the dollar is worth less and less on the world markets.

Since oil is world priced, the domestic price at the pump should have doubled by now,
BUT
the price of gasoline has been artificially low because oil companies have raised the price of diesel to subsidize the pump price of gasoline. This coupled with increased domestic oil production has keep the pump price of gasoline lower than it should be under "normal" market conditions.

As long as folks have bud and football and gasoline is not too highly priced no one knows the difference. Most are ignorant of these manipulated conditions that are building an economic house of cards.

It's good to see some more diesels on the market. BMW has had them for years, here in USA, just in small quantities.
My-Oh-My. What is your source for this information? The 'lending money to China' is a particularly interesting assertion to explain Chairsatan Bernanke's endless fed pumping...
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 12:39 PM
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I <3 my TDI

The new diesels you can't really even tell they are diesel other than the torque. They are very nearly as quiet as gas motors even at idle. Unless you are standing outside near the hood, you can't tell at all. I don't know how many people have commented "This is diesel" -- which I should trademark
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoellis View Post
Seriously, these conspiracy theories are pretty darn funny. When prices are up, it's manipulation. When prices are down, it's manipulation.

I really don't get the comment that "increased domestic oil production has keep the pump price of gasoline lower than it should be under "normal" market conditions". What? That is normal market conditions. Econ 101. Be thankful that as a nation we have access to a plethora of natural resources.

Our domestic blessings aside, the global wholesale crude oil price is what it is (for those nations that don't have their own natural resources). However, from there, a whole host of local factors affect the price of motor fuel. Chief amongst them are taxes, which are massive in places like the UK and Europe. Contrast that with a place like Venezuela that is awash with oil and has a leader that attempts to placate the populace by subsidizing the price of fuel such that the retail price is 6 cents per gallon.
Yes good analogy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GYM View Post
My-Oh-My. What is your source for this information? The 'lending money to China' is a particularly interesting assertion to explain Chairsatan Bernanke's endless fed pumping...
You probably already know, the term Quantitative Easing that unfortunately is very real.
Search the amount of US debt China has bought and is buying (shouldn't have used the incorrect term "lending" with China).
Look up the drop in valve of the US Dollar.
Google the rise in the cost of diesel vs gasoline.
And check out domestic oil production that's at the highest level in the past 9 years.
I've watched these numbers shift over time.

I don't think it's a conspiracy or a theory, just things that are currently happening.
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  #10  
Old February 23rd, 2013, 10:39 AM
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Let me simplify things a bit for you. The main difference in pricing here in the U.S. between gasoline in different regions and diesel overall is refining capacity and emissions regulation. Refining capacity is shrinking and regionalized. As well, emission regulation is regionalized, such as CARB in California. Further, the move to ULSD has increased refining costs with that expense passed on to the consumer.

The refining business appears simple at first glance, but it's made enormously complex by a plethora of regulations requiring multiple streams of product to be cracked per barrel of crude. Throw the green lobby into the mix and a nimby attitude, it's clear that the obstacles to lower prices are growing.

So, before taking it to the macro-economic level, take a look at the micro factors first.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoellis View Post
Let me simplify things a bit for you. The main difference in pricing here in the U.S. between gasoline in different regions and diesel overall is refining capacity and emissions regulation. Refining capacity is shrinking and regionalized. As well, emission regulation is regionalized, such as CARB in California. Further, the move to ULSD has increased refining costs with that expense passed on to the consumer.

The refining business appears simple at first glance, but it's made enormously complex by a plethora of regulations requiring multiple streams of product to be cracked per barrel of crude. Throw the green lobby into the mix and a nimby attitude, it's clear that the obstacles to lower prices are growing.

So, before taking it to the macro-economic level, take a look at the micro factors first.
PM sent to discuss different opinions.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

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  #12  
Old February 23rd, 2013, 11:03 AM
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People like gas not refineries. Like cell phones but not towers. Like electricity but not power plants.
Something has to give.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
PM sent to discuss different opinions.
No reason to take it off line. This forum is about good open discussions. You can start a new thread in order to return this one to the original topic, but unless you understand refining economics there's no point.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Search the amount of US debt China has bought and is buying (shouldn't have used the incorrect term "lending" with China).
Maybe I missed something - but isn't it actually the "opposite" term? If China is buying USA debt - then the end result is China is lending the USA money. And a lot of it - the most recent number I've heard is a little over $1 trillion...

It does remind me if the SNL skit...

"And just so there is no misunderstanding...you are not allowed to pay us back in clunkers."
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Old February 24th, 2013, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
I <3 my TDI

The new diesels you can't really even tell they are diesel other than the torque. They are very nearly as quiet as gas motors even at idle. Unless you are standing outside near the hood, you can't tell at all. I don't know how many people have commented "This is diesel" -- which I should trademark
You tune yours yet?
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  #16  
Old February 24th, 2013, 08:37 AM
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You tune yours yet?
My 2011 Golf TDI is missing something in the downpipe and is running Malone's Stage 2 program.

It almost gets the mileage that my 03 Jetta ALH got but with more power.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
I <3 my TDI

The new diesels you can't really even tell they are diesel other than the torque. They are very nearly as quiet as gas motors even at idle. Unless you are standing outside near the hood, you can't tell at all. I don't know how many people have commented "This is diesel" -- which I should trademark
I really wanted to get one of the tdi wagons. My wife didn't like it when we sat in it, though. She did like the new Ford Escape. I would still love to have one.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 10:37 AM
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It is nice that its one world one engine now. At least the excuse of having to make a whole new engine for the US market isn't valid anymore. So they are running out of excuses to not bring it to here.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 11:08 AM
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Yes China is buying US debt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobTheGob View Post
Maybe I missed something - but isn't it actually the "opposite" term? If China is buying USA debt - then the end result is China is lending the USA money. And a lot of it - the most recent number I've heard is a little over $1 trillion...

It does remind me if the SNL skit...

"And just so there is no misunderstanding...you are not allowed to pay us back in clunkers."
Yes you are correct as I originally used the word "lend" in post #4 which should have been "offer" so originally stated the situation incorrectly.

See post 9 which reads: "Search the amount of US debt China has bought and is buying (shouldn't have used the incorrect term "lending" with China)"
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  #20  
Old February 24th, 2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by red64chevelle View Post
My 2011 Golf TDI is missing something in the downpipe and is running Malone's Stage 2 program.

It almost gets the mileage that my 03 Jetta ALH got but with more power.
Whats the power its putting out now?
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