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  #21  
Old April 16th, 2011, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stmpede
I have posted on this before, just a month or two ago, but LR is building a New Defender and it is supposed to be based on the LR4 platform. I have not yet seen pictures, but hold out hope that it will be similar to the 4dr Rubicon. For all of you who say it won't be as capable, I highly doubt that. You would be surprised at how much MORE capable the new LR products are than their predecessors in stock form. Granted, the aftermarket has done wonders for the current defender and discovery, and it will certainly be more expensive to upgrade newer ones, but I am confident that their capability will not suffer.

As for the Sport theory, I believe that it was LR's goal to bring back a RR in that size/price segment. The 2003 grew quite a bit from the P38 in both areas. If you take a tape measure to it, you will see that the Sport is essentially a new P38 in size and price. The Range Rover is more expensive and larger than ever and they needed to fill the gap that it created in their line-up. Just my $.02

It would seem then that this is no more than the platform redundancy seen from other car manufacturers, notably GM, in the past. The Sport is built on the LR4 platform and aside from trim is essentially the same. So, what are you getting with this supposed new Defender built on the LR4 platform aside from a different body?

This is a cost effective manufacturing process, but it alienates the enthusiast. Not a knock on the LR4, by the way. I've got one and it's a tremendous vehicle, but I also have a D90 because it's a different vehicle and not just in looks.

On another note, I've heard some rumblings that LR are considering separating brands into a Range Rover line, for the luxury set, and the Land Rover line for the more utilitarian versions.
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  #22  
Old April 16th, 2011, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
If the new 4 door Wrangler had defender like front fenders and a traditional Land Rover roof would you guys have bought it?
depends on the amount of rivets, sound deadening material, shitty hvac and if it has vents under the windshield. if all that checks out then probably yes, otherwise Ill keep schlepping along in my Defender until it rusts away
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  #23  
Old April 17th, 2011, 07:57 AM
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I did buy the new Wrangler when it first came out as my daily. The closest new vehicle with a warranty to a Defender on the market. Was a great one till it hit 60k and the motor went bad. Hence sold.
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  #24  
Old April 17th, 2011, 08:33 AM
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Jeep

I bought a new unlimited Rubicon in 2008, fun truck, too much plastic, under powered, but really capapble.

The AEV J8 is a really capable vehicle, and if Jeep ever gets around to a diesel rubicon, I would buy another as a DD

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
If the new 4 door Wrangler had defender like front fenders and a traditional Land Rover roof would you guys have bought it?
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  #25  
Old April 17th, 2011, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ssbartley1 View Post
I bought a new unlimited Rubicon in 2008, fun truck, too much plastic, under powered, but really capapble.

The AEV J8 is a really capable vehicle, and if Jeep ever gets around to a diesel rubicon, I would buy another as a DD
They do have diesel, just not for the US.
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  #26  
Old April 17th, 2011, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoellis View Post
It would seem then that this is no more than the platform redundancy seen from other car manufacturers, notably GM, in the past. The Sport is built on the LR4 platform and aside from trim is essentially the same. So, what are you getting with this supposed new Defender built on the LR4 platform aside from a different body?

This is a cost effective manufacturing process, but it alienates the enthusiast. Not a knock on the LR4, by the way. I've got one and it's a tremendous vehicle, but I also have a D90 because it's a different vehicle and not just in looks.

On another note, I've heard some rumblings that LR are considering separating brands into a Range Rover line, for the luxury set, and the Land Rover line for the more utilitarian versions.
I might be mistaken, but I thought the 94-97 Defenders shared the same platform as the Discovery of the same era.
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  #27  
Old April 17th, 2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by founD90 View Post
I might be mistaken, but I thought the 94-97 Defenders shared the same platform as the Discovery of the same era.
Pretty close. The RRC, the Disco 1 and the Defender were on very similar frames, and used the same drivetrain and suspension components. But that was back when all Land Rovers were built to take a beating. The new Disco and RR are capable, but too fragile for a life off road.

Speaking of Defender news -- http://www.bangkokpost.com/auto/auto...efender-output

------ Follow up post added April 17th, 2011 04:49 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
They do have diesel, just not for the US.
Yep, a pretty good one too. But after driving my sis's 4 door Wangler, the diesel wouldn't swing me. Too much plastic, crappy assembly, and they suffer from the same "gun slit window syndrome" as the H3, makes you feel like you're sitting on the floor. I like the bottom of the door window to be at or below the level of my elbow, not my ears.
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  #28  
Old April 17th, 2011, 06:21 PM
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Shouldn't that prototype be under the subsection 'Land Rover that suck!' ????
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  #29  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 06:57 PM
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There was a blurb in the latest Automobile magazine. New Defender coming to the states 2014. Said it won't be as "badass". Ya think?
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  #30  
Old May 4th, 2011, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
If the new 4 door Wrangler had defender like front fenders and a traditional Land Rover roof would you guys have bought it?
yes.
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  #31  
Old May 4th, 2011, 10:27 AM
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yes.
And a proper (diesel) engine....
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  #32  
Old May 4th, 2011, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
They do have diesel, just not for the US.
Jeep has the 2.8 Diesel in the Rubicon in the EU but only in the Automatic. Go figure.. Look to Fiat to provide diesels to Chrysler...we can only hope wait isn't it "fix it again Tony"?

I think you can look to the current Defender and see the future. It isn't going to be anything like the Defenders we drive today....
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  #33  
Old May 4th, 2011, 10:46 PM
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I hope it will have LED fog lights and dual sport exhaust.
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  #34  
Old May 5th, 2011, 04:05 AM
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Tony Sims
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC22958 View Post
Look to Fiat to provide diesels to Chrysler...we can only hope wait isn't it "fix it again Tony"?

I resemble that remark... And stoopidly enough, I owned a Fiat for 8 years (an X1/9, FFS!).

The Fiat diesels are well regarded, and also used by Pug and Citroen (Fiat builds the vans for all three brands at their factory in Italy). They are common rail, and come in 2.2 (100hp/184ftlb), 2.3 (120hp/236lbft) and 3.0 (157hp/295lbft) liters. If Chrysler is going to bring one to the US, it will probably be the 3.0, although the 2.3 would be plenty for a 2 door Heep.

Given there is a wide market for a vehicle similar to the existing Defender, I'm betting Tata will continue to make some form of body on frame/solid axle Defender-type vehicle. There are preliminary plans for Defender production in Thailand, with a switch to rear leaf springs (Defender/Massif hybrid!) to fit in to Thailand's lower tax rate for locally built utility trucks.

That said, I doubt the US will get that vehicle, or one even remotely similar. Even if Tata splits the LR and RR brands, I think any LR branded vehicle in the US will be derived from the Discovery platform in use at that point. Between NHTSA and DEQ rules and the lobbying from the IIHS, the current Defender platform is never going to fly in the US (and likely not the EC, where they have even regulated the noise level of off-road tires).

And, let's not forget, even the current Puma Defender is still loud, crude, slow, not particularly comfortable and has a less than stellar reputation for reliability. You, me and maybe 100,000 other people in the US think the existing Defender is cool, and maybe 25% of us (not including me) would actually sign up to buy one. That is not going to light the Marketing department on fire. They may understand it is a niche vehicle, but they want a bigger niche in a market of 200 million consumers.

If a vehicle called Defender is sold in the US, it will be the LR equivalent of the FJ Cruiser. It will be a capable off-roader, but it will not be a classic Defender.
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[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
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  #35  
Old May 5th, 2011, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
If a vehicle called Defender is sold in the US, it will be the LR equivalent of the FJ Cruiser. It will be a capable off-roader, but it will not be a classic Defender.
I think you are probably right. Looking at what Jeep did to the Wrangler, a move away from the tougher sparten vehicle to a more comfortable road vehicle that may or may not ever see something other than asphalt, I'd think that Tata would follow suit. I certainly can't see any sizeable market for the real Defender. Hell, where I live 3 out of 4 vehicles are 4 wheel drive and when it snows no one is to be seen! Forget about off roading. It's all image.
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  #36  
Old May 5th, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
If a vehicle called Defender is sold in the US, it will be the LR equivalent of the FJ Cruiser. It will be a capable off-roader, but it will not be a classic Defender.
x2, it might split the difference between "appearing" rugged and actually being a bit rugged, but with a modern interior/amenities.


...no thanks
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  #37  
Old May 5th, 2011, 12:11 PM
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Maybe the new defender will be able to park itself ala prius?
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  #38  
Old May 6th, 2011, 09:46 AM
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Tony Sims
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I should have written "and maybe 25% of us (not including me) would actually sign up to buy a new Puma."

------ Follow up post added May 6th, 2011 02:57 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstrubl View Post
x2, it might split the difference between "appearing" rugged and actually being a bit rugged, but with a modern interior/amenities.


...no thanks
And we all ready have the Disco, it's roomy and comfortable and pretty capable right off the showroom floor.

Looking at the FJ Cruiser, the H3 and the newest Heep, form won over function. All of them have reasonable off road capability, but the visibility out of them is awful, and I fear the same for any Defender Pretender vehicle. That's why I liked my RRC, and why I like my 110 -- you sit high in a big open greenhouse of a cab, where you can see the corners and look down right to the ground next to the truck. Or in the case of my 110, through the floors at the ground under the truck...
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[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
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