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  #21  
Old November 13th, 2015, 03:40 AM
cowboy
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steven
'84 110 & '90 127 LHD 2-carb V8's
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivermike View Post
My bad , ofcoarse this is not a PUMA dash, it is the NAS style dash.
So, you're gonna be sending him a very substantial refund, right? A Puma dash upgrade would cost thousands...when can he expect that check from you? Never?
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  #22  
Old November 13th, 2015, 04:43 AM
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JAH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivermike View Post
...there was corrosion on the sill sections which could not be removed without taking out the T pillar. With US customs strategy in mind it is hard to juggle between what can be done to legally enter the country and what should be done. More info in my post below.
I must have missed that section of your ad for a $45k restored truck that highlighted the known faults, which persisted solely in an attempt to pass US customs. Of note, if you provide any LR dealership with your registration / proof of ownership, they will issue new stickers for repaired or replaced T posts and bulkheads. Problem solved for future builds.

Master cylinder leaking, prop-shaft / drivetrain issues greater than 30mph, new AC non-functioning, brake fluid leaking from the rear drums, various cosmetic issues - these are inexcusable on a $45k truck, backed by your advertisement and reputation.

Mike, your trucks always appear to be nicely refurbished, panel off, frame up restorations with relatively moderate price tags, given the restrictions for import - rear drums, all original chassis, original engines. I hope that you can correct this for the original poster, your customer, on which your future sales and reputation will be based.
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  #23  
Old November 13th, 2015, 08:33 AM
jason1st
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Jason Crandall
2006 LR3 2012 SC 1983 110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akrockhound View Post
So all thing considered I agree with Jason - buy a Defender that's here or go to the UK and personally buy one there.
I think if you are buying a truck from a private seller in Europe you definitely need to go there and have a look at it.

Rivermike makes a living restoring these trucks and advertising them for sale on Defendersource. He has listed and sold many here. How can his sales pitch and reality be so far apart?

IMO, there's a huge opportunity here for someone to create a legitimate business selling Defenders in U.S. How hard can it be to do it right? I paid over $3K for NEW AC and installation and look at the cobbled together hoses Rivermike used...... That's not NEW. That's crap. I've now re-bought and re-installed everything.

All Rivermike is doing is hurting everyone else in this business abroad and hurting the guys in U.S. that import trucks for living. Because here I am saying "YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU BUY A TRUCK FROM OVERSEAS AND IMPORT IT". Buy one that's already in the U.S. There are many on Ebay in all sorts of price ranges.
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  #24  
Old November 13th, 2015, 11:56 AM
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Michael
2008 LHD Tdci 110 Keswick Green
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Wow, after Arkonik / Landrovers UK, Safari HP, Geared Restoration we are next in line ?

I feel sorry for Jason, clearly his expections of the truck were higher than what we agreed. I completely understand his feeling of disappointment though. He has waited longer than he was supposed to, we had to order 2nd row high back seats in Exmoor Outlast fabric, a material which was rarely used and is now NLA by Exmoor. We have to rely on suppliers which can be a pain sometimes.

As all of you know, when rebuilding a truck you need to make a decision between doing a full renovation and medium renovation, based on importation in the US , money available and wishes from the new owner. Especially with US customs strategy in mind it is hard to do a complete renovation, remove bulkhead, T-pillars, sandblast entire chassis and build from scratch. It makes no sense doing a full renovation on a galvy frame with new doors, new glass and new T-pillars and end up with the truck being seized / locked up in a customs compound, on top of that the price would be 60K to 100K, same as the Defender outlets in your country.

This truck came to us in running condition with 50.000 km, formerly imported from Gibraltar and then put into storage. It ran fine so we opted to do a medium renovation, strip body all roof, windshield frame, floorpans, doors, lights, glass and interior. We kept the original engine in place, just serviced it and it ran fine, kept the original gearbox in place which is noisy from the factory but it needs to be there for customs. Original axles which were not rebuild. As written in the description, rebuild suspension, shocks, springs, anti rollbar kit, some new bushes and new rear brakes.
No new brake master cylinder or any of the clutch cylinders, since they worked fine and we did not agree I would change them. Not a wise call as Jason proofed after arrival in the US.

It was the first truck we painted in matt Frozen Grey, which is used on the M3 BMW, a paint system which is quite new and fragile, easily gets damaged, which can be seem on the eyebrows where it started flaking off on Jasons truck. I never heard of it flaking off anywhere else. When the truck was almost done we asked Jason if he would like a black or original type headliner, he agreed on the original headliner so we installed that. Most of the guys here know what an original 1983 headliner looks like, it is not straight, fluffy, brownish in color. Unfortunately the roofpanel was not properly sealed when we put the roof back, which Jason discovered upon arrival so I refunded him partially for labour, materials to fix it. He also asked us to remove the entire SVX grill and light assembly and change it for the OE items which we did per his request.

From pricepoint let me say the following. A solid 5 dr LHD V8 110 prior to restoration will sell in the US for roughly $ 14 K to $ 18 K plus shipping, a low mileage one with 50K miles will sell for more than $ 18 K. There have been a number of original unrestored 1983 / 1987 trucks for sale around the $ 20 to $ 25 K mark or even more. Jason spend $ 38K on the truck ( minus the accesories he choose to install) which left us with a budget of roughly $ 20K to refurb the truck. We spend roughly $4K in paint and $8K in parts ( a whole list of new parts to include 3 new doors, alloy wheels, tyres, spacers, ,exhaust, springs, shocks, service kit and filters, carpets and matting, 9 Exmoor outlast seats, seatbelts, all new lights front and rear, SVX grill pack, HD Flatdog front bumper, sandblasting and powdercoating parts , cad plated hardware and much more. Leaves a total of $8K for labour. Work to strip the truck, preparation , fix the suspension and rear brakes, ( no rebuild axles) and build it up again was about 220 hrs, works out to $ 36 per hr. Bear in mind our hourly rate is more than double that price. My point is that if the basic truck before renovation costs roughly $18K and we charge $ 38K, it is NO nut and bolt renovation. I fully agree with Jason, it would be a better option to buy a truck already in the US that you can inspect and/ or test drive instead of buying sight unseen or jump on a plane and inspect the truck where ever it is in Europe.

Bear in mind this is not my native language, I try my best to use the right wording but somethings might be incorrectly described.

If people have questions about our trucks Id rather communicate through my regular email address and not comment on everything is said here. Most comments here are based on hearsay, many people have a opinion which is based on assumptions and still they like to share with anybody, fine, that is what these forums are for.
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  #25  
Old November 13th, 2015, 12:10 PM
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Jim Cheney
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If I was spending 45k, I would fly to Europe and do the deal on person. Buying sight unseen is never good. Even if all disappointment is explained through miscommunication, how could you ever get a seller to deal with the issues?

This is an open invite to anyone who wants to travel to see a truck. If you come near, I will put you up, explain the transport system to you, let you inspect my truck, and help you navigate as much as I can.
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  #26  
Old November 13th, 2015, 12:20 PM
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Michael
2008 LHD Tdci 110 Keswick Green
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I totally agree , I had another boardmember here today and last weekend 2 buyers flew in and spend the day here. It would be my pleasure to show you around
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  #27  
Old November 13th, 2015, 12:39 PM
javelinadave
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When I was on the hunt for my truck here is what I did.
1) Get a description over the phone
2) Get pictures
3) Get a video tour via FaceTime or Skype
4) Fly out and see it in person

After several wild goose chases I found the right truck and bought it. There is a lot of shit and polished turds out there. It is up to the buyer to be sure their gem is in fact a gem.
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  #28  
Old November 13th, 2015, 01:15 PM
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With all things considered, just curious what Jason's truck would have cost with working A/C, dry headliner, perfect clutch master/slave, no chips in paint, no painted over rust, functioning brakes, and the ability to drive over 30mph comfortably? I mean I guess in the descriptions, to be fair going forward Mike, should have all these issues noted so the buyer knows what kind of bargain he is getting for 45K.
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  #29  
Old November 13th, 2015, 02:09 PM
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1of40
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Simple. There was a level of trust and goodwill that evolved in this community that obviously some vendors have been taking full advantage of.

I hope now that our trust and goodwill have been tainted that some vendors will pay in one way or another.

Mike, as a professional and one who has financially gained from this community, you have a personal fiduciary responsibility to this forum and the members of the forum. Setting a price of $45K for what this guy received is no less disingenuousness than stealing.

The vendor section is not being properly utilized. Maybe vendors should reside in the vendor section and if they fuck up like this they should be blocked.
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  #30  
Old November 13th, 2015, 02:12 PM
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Somebody needs to start a business where they just take apart entire defenders, sandblast everything to bare metal, throw in a $500 bag of stainless fasteners, and sell all the pieces in a 12 foot container. That's about 50% of a resto right there.

You could call it "truck in a box"
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  #31  
Old November 13th, 2015, 02:21 PM
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Rocky
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Chris
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Frozen grey? That's a tough color to look after.....

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  #32  
Old November 13th, 2015, 03:00 PM
jason1st
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Jason Crandall
2006 LR3 2012 SC 1983 110
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA.
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by rivermike View Post
Wow, after Arkonik / Landrovers UK, Safari HP, Geared Restoration we are next in line ?

I feel sorry for Jason, clearly his expections of the truck were higher than what we agreed. I completely understand his feeling of disappointment though. He has waited longer than he was supposed to, we had to order 2nd row high back seats in Exmoor Outlast fabric, a material which was rarely used and is now NLA by Exmoor. We have to rely on suppliers which can be a pain sometimes.

As all of you know, when rebuilding a truck you need to make a decision between doing a full renovation and medium renovation, based on importation in the US , money available and wishes from the new owner. Especially with US customs strategy in mind it is hard to do a complete renovation, remove bulkhead, T-pillars, sandblast entire chassis and build from scratch. It makes no sense doing a full renovation on a galvy frame with new doors, new glass and new T-pillars and end up with the truck being seized / locked up in a customs compound, on top of that the price would be 60K to 100K, same as the Defender outlets in your country.

This truck came to us in running condition with 50.000 km, formerly imported from Gibraltar and then put into storage. It ran fine so we opted to do a medium renovation, strip body all roof, windshield frame, floorpans, doors, lights, glass and interior. We kept the original engine in place, just serviced it and it ran fine, kept the original gearbox in place which is noisy from the factory but it needs to be there for customs. Original axles which were not rebuild. As written in the description, rebuild suspension, shocks, springs, anti rollbar kit, some new bushes and new rear brakes.
No new brake master cylinder or any of the clutch cylinders, since they worked fine and we did not agree I would change them. Not a wise call as Jason proofed after arrival in the US.

It was the first truck we painted in matt Frozen Grey, which is used on the M3 BMW, a paint system which is quite new and fragile, easily gets damaged, which can be seem on the eyebrows where it started flaking off on Jasons truck. I never heard of it flaking off anywhere else. When the truck was almost done we asked Jason if he would like a black or original type headliner, he agreed on the original headliner so we installed that. Most of the guys here know what an original 1983 headliner looks like, it is not straight, fluffy, brownish in color. Unfortunately the roofpanel was not properly sealed when we put the roof back, which Jason discovered upon arrival so I refunded him partially for labour, materials to fix it. He also asked us to remove the entire SVX grill and light assembly and change it for the OE items which we did per his request.

From pricepoint let me say the following. A solid 5 dr LHD V8 110 prior to restoration will sell in the US for roughly $ 14 K to $ 18 K plus shipping, a low mileage one with 50K miles will sell for more than $ 18 K. There have been a number of original unrestored 1983 / 1987 trucks for sale around the $ 20 to $ 25 K mark or even more. Jason spend $ 38K on the truck ( minus the accesories he choose to install) which left us with a budget of roughly $ 20K to refurb the truck. We spend roughly $4K in paint and $8K in parts ( a whole list of new parts to include 3 new doors, alloy wheels, tyres, spacers, ,exhaust, springs, shocks, service kit and filters, carpets and matting, 9 Exmoor outlast seats, seatbelts, all new lights front and rear, SVX grill pack, HD Flatdog front bumper, sandblasting and powdercoating parts , cad plated hardware and much more. Leaves a total of $8K for labour. Work to strip the truck, preparation , fix the suspension and rear brakes, ( no rebuild axles) and build it up again was about 220 hrs, works out to $ 36 per hr. Bear in mind our hourly rate is more than double that price. My point is that if the basic truck before renovation costs roughly $18K and we charge $ 38K, it is NO nut and bolt renovation. I fully agree with Jason, it would be a better option to buy a truck already in the US that you can inspect and/ or test drive instead of buying sight unseen or jump on a plane and inspect the truck where ever it is in Europe.

Bear in mind this is not my native language, I try my best to use the right wording but somethings might be incorrectly described.

If people have questions about our trucks Id rather communicate through my regular email address and not comment on everything is said here. Most comments here are based on hearsay, many people have a opinion which is based on assumptions and still they like to share with anybody, fine, that is what these forums are for.
Your english is just fine Mike. Most of your post rambles on about changes I made such as choosing a different grill than what was pictured in the ad which is true. Yes I wanted different wheels. So what? That has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

You say the axels/drivetrain weren't rebuilt but in your ad it says:
"Doing front and rear suspension now, all new bearings, drive flanges, rebuild calipers, new EBC grooved rotors, new rear brakes, new springs, shocks etc"

Your ad says "no rust on body or frame." Look at my pictures. There's plenty of rust on the body. You just painted over it.
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  #33  
Old November 19th, 2015, 07:07 AM
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Any updates or resolutions to this mess?
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  #34  
Old November 19th, 2015, 07:27 AM
jason1st
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Jason Crandall
2006 LR3 2012 SC 1983 110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
Any updates or resolutions to this mess?
No resolution. I wasn't expecting one. I tried to resolve these issues privately with Mike but he went dark on me. So I made this thread.

I just want to warn everyone else about what to expect from importing a 110 vs. just buying one that's already here in the U.S. I don't see the point of importing. Be patient, watch for sale ads here and on Ebay.

My 110 is back at the shop getting the punch list of items taken care of. It's been a 1.5 years (3X longer) and 3X what I wanted to spend on this project. I've done many commercial and residential renovation projects. This 110 project is very much like that. It's expensive and painful. Hopefully in the end It'll all be worth it.
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  #35  
Old November 19th, 2015, 07:30 AM
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1of40
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Well, that speaks volumes.
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  #36  
Old November 19th, 2015, 07:36 AM
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It'll be worth it.
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  #37  
Old November 19th, 2015, 11:33 AM
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Michael
2008 LHD Tdci 110 Keswick Green
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Jason, I do not think that is correct. Your last email to me dates back to 17 November 2014, over a year ago....

"" At 22:14 17-11-2014, you wrote:

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the email.

Since my last email to you I have also replaced the clutch slave and master cylinder. The slave was out when the truck arrived. Fluid just leaked right through it. Upon replacing the salve, the master cylinder started leaking.

The headliner cards were ruined because of the water that leaked in through the roof so I’m also having to buy a new headliner at $1000.00. Thank you for your offer to make things right. I really appreciate it. Let me know your thoughts.

Jason Crandall """

There is no communication after that .... no email to me, no phone call to me. I always respond quickly and return phone call the same day.

My reply to you the next day :


"" Please send me your bank wire instructions so I can send you the wire transfer of $ XXXX to pay towards your repairs.

I hope you are still happy with your truck.

My best regards,Michael ""

Since then it went dark from your side.
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  #38  
Old November 19th, 2015, 11:46 AM
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Adam
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Interesting. Sounds like a "healthy" communication between buyer and seller. With a common resolution...
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  #39  
Old November 19th, 2015, 04:33 PM
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Jeff Payne
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I had good dealings with Michael. It wasn't a restoration but he did an engine swap for me. Our only communication was through email and I never felt like he left me hanging. He updated me with pictures throughout the process. In the end he credited me some cash for a set of wheels that he swapped out.
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  #40  
Old November 19th, 2015, 07:02 PM
jason1st
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Jason Crandall
2006 LR3 2012 SC 1983 110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivermike View Post
Jason, I do not think that is correct. Your last email to me dates back to 17 November 2014, over a year ago....

"" At 22:14 17-11-2014, you wrote:

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the email.

Since my last email to you I have also replaced the clutch slave and master cylinder. The slave was out when the truck arrived. Fluid just leaked right through it. Upon replacing the salve, the master cylinder started leaking.

The headliner cards were ruined because of the water that leaked in through the roof so I€™m also having to buy a new headliner at $1000.00. Thank you for your offer to make things right. I really appreciate it. Let me know your thoughts.

Jason Crandall """

There is no communication after that .... no email to me, no phone call to me. I always respond quickly and return phone call the same day.

My reply to you the next day :


"" Please send me your bank wire instructions so I can send you the wire transfer of $ XXXX to pay towards your repairs.

I hope you are still happy with your truck.

My best regards,Michael ""

Since then it went dark from your side.
You sent me some money to cover the ruined headliner. But sealing up the roof and buying a new headliner plus installation cost me a few thousand $$. You never acknowledged the clutch master and slave cylinders. That was several thousand too. From there it just fell apart.

You should post the email where I bring all the AC problems to your attention. Did you see the picture of the shoddy workmanship on the AC I posted in this thread. That was a NEW unit and new install. It was crap. Never worked. Wired backwards. Smoked and the hoses were just ridiculous.

In your FOR SALE thread you show the rear seats in the truck in March of 2014. I didn't send you money til April 29, 2014. Why did it take over 4 months after that to ship?
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