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  #1  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 06:38 PM
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Mtl/mt90

I know a lot of people like the Redline MTL, I think its a 70/80 the MT90 is 75/90. I have been using the MTL but have been thinking about the MT-90 seems a little heavier viscosity might not hurt?
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  #2  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 10:31 PM
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John B.
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I've used MTL for years and it shifts great in all temperatures.

Keep in mind that 70W-80 is not a little thinner than 75W-90....

MT90 is 50% thicker at running temperature, twice as thick at room temperature and 3 times as thick at -40.
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  #3  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 10:37 PM
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jim pendleton
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Rob Dassler turned me on to the Royal Purple Sychromax lately. Have it in a couple trucks now. Very impressed. Big improvement over the MTL.
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  #4  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 10:52 PM
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Jim, is that what I should use in my R380?
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  #5  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 11:44 PM
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Jim -- How about the LT77 w/ Royal Purple Synchromax?
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  #6  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 11:52 PM
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Yes on the royal purple for you both.

If it were me on an older gearbox that had not been changed in a while. I would run type F dextron for a couple weeks and drain it when its hot to help flush out the transmission before adding the royal purple. The purple is $pendy, make it last.
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  #7  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 11:58 PM
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Royal Purple Synchromax is an ATF weight fluid.

While that is fine and all, it is the spec of ATF for R380s that lead to early synchro wear in the first place. Sure it will shift easier when new or when cold but IMHO you are asking for trouble long term.

YMMV and I would not question Roadside Rob--he is the expert in rebuilding rover transmissions

MT-90 is much too thick and would likely cause the pump to fail eventually.
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  #8  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
While that is fine and all, it is the spec of ATF for R380s that lead to early synchro wear in the first place. Sure it will shift easier when new or when cold but IMHO you are asking for trouble long term.
I could be wrong, but as I understand it, the problem is that ATF is too slippery and does not provide enough friction for the synchros to engage quickly. Because of the delay, the "average" Joe forces the shift and the thin layer of the low viscosity fluid collapses causing the synchros to touch and wear. High viscosity lubes have the same slow synchronization problem but have a harder to collapse layer of fluid.

The MTF type fluids such as Synchromax and MTL fix the problem by having a high coefficient of friction that drops off as the synchros match, allowing quick synchronization without film collapse. Redline explains it more fully here: http://www.redlineoil.com/whitePaper/13.pdf

It is good to here first hand accounts of Synchromax in these gearboxes. I keep meaning to try it out as the specs are good and everyone raves about it.
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  #9  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 12:35 AM
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I thought it-Synchromax- had a GL4 rating like the other fluids I have used in the past as well.

Just looked at the site. The max-gear is GL-4 fluid.

Been using the MTL or liquid gold fluid for NV 4500's in the years past. The liquid gold is just to thick for rebuilds. And I guess the max-gear would be as well. The MTL just does not last very long before a dry shift 'feeling' appears in my experience. 6-8 months of regular use is my take on it around here. May bear some more investigation whether the Sychromax breaks down over time and with extended heat. But initial experience with it is very appealing.

Will check in with Rob and report back. Pretty sure on the Sychromax over max-gear.

Of course type F changed with every oil change works also.
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  #10  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 01:06 AM
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Humm, my understanding was that royal purple had no "MTF" or in between oil that was thicker than an ATF and thinner than a full Gl-4/5 75w90. I use their 5w40 in my lotus and have been happy, but I stick with Redline for the transmissions. I have put about 15k on the lotus with MT-90 and it just keeps getting better. Put about the same on my disco with MTL and noticed no reduction in performance. Maybe a cooler would help if you think the breakdown is heat related, but I would think that it would not get that hot unless you had a bearing or two on the way out.

From the royal purple website:

Manual Transmission / Transaxle (ATFs) arrowSynchromax

Manual Transmission / Transaxle (API GL-4 or GL-5: 75W90, 80W90) arrowMax-Gear 75W90

Manual Transmission / Transaxle (API GL-3: 75W90, 80W90) arrowSAE 10W40 / XPR 10W40

Bert & Brinn (n/a) arrowSynchromax

Liberty & G-Force (n/a) arrowSynchromax
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  #11  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 12:09 PM
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As far as breakdown, I just changed my MTL that had been in there for three years. It still looked brand new. I was going to have it tested, but it was obviously undamaged. This is in an LT77.

If you are suspecting breakdown, get a basic oil analysis done. Cheap and useful.
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  #12  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 12:45 PM
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My take on why Redline does not work for me is the the shift shafts seem to feel dry after the fluid ages. Dry shift. So not sure the oil is breaking down. But it does not climb to lube with age as it does new.

We will see if the Sychromax royal purple does after time. I confirmed with Rob Dassler-the Sychromax Royal Purple was his recomendation not the Gear Max. So no GL-4 rating I am aware of.

Maybe we can all keep this thread active and get some more feedback.
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  #13  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 01:34 PM
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I didnt think the Defender R-380 had the "pump" only the Discos, I will try some of the Purple stuff.
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  #14  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 03:21 PM
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I don't currently have a Def. but a lowly Disco with a 300tdi and the r380 transmission. am I right to assume that Synchromax purple is the right choice for the disco R380 also? Mine is in fact a bit "notchy" going into 3rd sometimes. Perhaps the purple stuff will help?
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  #15  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 03:22 PM
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  #16  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 03:28 PM
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great I will give it a try
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  #17  
Old July 5th, 2008, 01:06 AM
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The battle or royal purple synchromax v. redline MTL begins . . . until someone tests it long term I am continuing to use the tried and true MTL.

"I didnt think the Defender R-380 had the "pump" only the Discos, I will try some of the Purple stuff."

They all have the "pump" as it is internal to the box. The discos have the cooler which the defenders do not (except the 110 has one IIRC).
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  #18  
Old July 5th, 2008, 07:04 AM
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I've been using the Royal Purple for a few years and it is by far the best thing I have ever used in an R-380. Even older transmissions with the slow synchro into 2nd improve...even in extreme cold. $$ well spent. The long term testing in my heap has been very impressive. I swear it even makes them run quieter.
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  #19  
Old July 17th, 2008, 06:28 PM
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Swaping out the MTL for the Syncromax tomorrow, anyone need some MTL? I hate for it to go to waste.
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  #20  
Old July 18th, 2008, 02:23 PM
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Hum... why nobody talks about MTF94 ? can't get it in the US ?
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