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  #21  
Old June 3rd, 2008, 09:41 PM
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I will add that my mileage numbers are with accurate distance measurements. Stock speedometer and odometers tend not to be the best thing to use for your measurements.
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  #22  
Old June 4th, 2008, 12:23 AM
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90 300Tdi ST
1.4 T Case
35" MTR's
4.11 gears


Normally about 22-23MPG

mabe a little better on the highway if I keep it under 65mpg.
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  #23  
Old June 4th, 2008, 02:08 AM
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Caveat: my truck isn't Pendy-Tuned.
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  #24  
Old June 4th, 2008, 03:42 AM
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Not sure what my 3.0ltr Toyota N/A engine will do to the gallon (US), time will tell, you could ask one of the land cruiser boys as this engine came from a mk1 land cruiser.
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  #25  
Old June 4th, 2008, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
the operator behind the skinny pedal has to make most of the effort.
Jayzus....so now I have to learn how to drive too.

Might be easier to move to Kansas where all the roads are downhill and the wind is always at your back.

Good results though JP. In fact, a 30+% gain over the average figure is quite outstanding.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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  #26  
Old June 4th, 2008, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkyddog11
Jayzus....so now I have to learn how to drive too.

Might be easier to move to Kansas where all the roads are downhill and the wind is always at your back.

Good results though JP. In fact, a 30+% gain over the average figure is quite outstanding.
Pendy is quoting percentages but he can only count in $1 bills...

That is entertainment.
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  #27  
Old June 4th, 2008, 09:51 AM
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Keith Kreutzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
I will add that my mileage numbers are with accurate distance measurements. Stock speedometer and odometers tend not to be the best thing to use for your measurements.
Remarkably My Stock speedo it dead on as compared to the GPS of a couple tanks, crazy I know but is is within 1/10's after 350 miles.

This may be a rare find indeed!
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  #28  
Old June 4th, 2008, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland 110
Pendy,
Can you squeeze any more out of my Toyota natural ? 4 liters and getting consistently 17-18/335-345 miles per tank. 33x11.25's, 3 inch lift, heavy as hell and tall as hell. Flog it or gentle seems to get the same. Nippondenso 6 cyl pump.

Think I have an angle on a Defender TDI/lt77/230 setup for July transplantation. Fingers crossed
So can I buy your engine once the swap is done?
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  #29  
Old June 4th, 2008, 12:50 PM
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jim pendleton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland 110
Pendy,
Can you squeeze any more out of my Toyota natural ? 4 liters and getting consistently 17-18/335-345 miles per tank. 33x11.25's, 3 inch lift, heavy as hell and tall as hell. Flog it or gentle seems to get the same. Nippondenso 6 cyl pump.

Think I have an angle on a Defender TDI/lt77/230 setup for July transplantation. Fingers crossed

Uhmm I think you answered your own question.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarchand
Pendy is quoting percentages but he can only count in $1 bills...

That is entertainment.
Did I quote percentages?

Counting in 1$ bills keeps me grounded. I'll leave the high finance to the young folk with their third mortgages and hefty extended credit lines.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
90 hard top, say 4500 lbs empty. Stock height. 200TDI (as is 16 years old, unknown life...), diaphragm 90 degrees clockwise, boost 13 psi (at 4000 feet). 235/85/16. 51A (military) LT77, 1.4:1 LT230, stock R&Ps.

I know the gearing is too low. 1st is useless on the road and it is reving too high on the freeway for good mileage. I've been thinking swapping to 1.2:1. I'm not afraid to downshift....

And I do trust you Jim. I just like to argue.....
Okay well I think your truck can do it. I have less experience with the 200Tdi but it is relatively the same.

What is your overall tire height? In inches not a misleading 3 tire part number. Does your tire conform to the road? You can do this with its air pressure. Place a chalk line across the face of the tire and drive in a straight line across a parking lot. Does the chalk wear evenly? If not raise or lower tire pressure to correct this. When you find the correct air pressure number that is your magic number for those set of tires only.

You have accurate speedo readings - that is good. What about the tach? Is it dead on at 3000 rpm. That is what I would want to be accurate. I recommend "tinytach" even if it is only secondary to set the main tach and used for tuning and drivetrain settings.

Does your truck do 80 mile an hour safely? Thats where I start. Are the wheel bearings in good service with good grease. Not set to tight or to loose. Are the brakes in good service with no dragging calipers and a healthy hydraulic system. Healthy would mean can the pads retract correctly without interferance from old brake lines or collapsing hard lines. Are the transmission/transfer case in good order with no increased drag from worn internals. Good fluid of correct viscosity. Synthetic fluids help the cause as well. This goes for your differentials as well. No extra drag from wear and good fluids, synthetic recommended.

So if your truck does 80 mile an hour safely. The suspension bushings are in good order and it tracks the road well. You say it is stock height-which helps. Up to an inch lift should be able to get good mileage. Another factor-how soft is your suspension. Does you truck lean back under acceleration like a dune runner. Not good for mileage. The drivetrains does not need to work against a soft suspension.

I am going to type another ten minutes and then continue this later.

Okay you said your diaphragm is set at 90degrees. I'm not going to give a class on pump tuning so either people have a clue or others will have to chime in and help explain the way to make adjustments.

I want 3 o'clock to be full enrichment by the dot on the inner washer on the diaphragm. The fuel pin rides the inverted funnel and when it can push furthest towards the back of the vehicle it is full enrichment. Thats where I want things for the sake of discussion. I am not saying to run it at 3 o'clock-but I'm not saying not to as well.

Next get rid of the white washer that limits travel of the inverted funnel. You need an accurate EGT gauge to tune the pump by my method. VDO and similar seem good. Be nice to see an aftermarket intercooler but not a determining factor. Is the cooling system in good order? Can it hold temperature at sustained highway speeds? We are going to increase performance so the cooling system needs to be better then stock. 4-5core radiator required. Good hoses, pump and thermostat.

Need a boost gauge installed. If only for tuning and then remove if you like. When you do this reroute the boost signals if you have not already. Stock, the wastgate gets its signal from the turbo housing. And pressure drop will shut down the turbo prematurely. So I want a boost signal from the far corner of the intake manifold from it inlet. This is where you will install your boost gauge for tuning also. So fitting at intake manifold has lines going to the boost gauge, the wastegate and the fuel enrichment for the injection pump. As it should be from the factory. Shorten the wastegate mechanical linkeage so that you can attain 16-17 boost. If it can touch 18 for a mere instant-I like it. You may have to turn fueling up a bit temporarily for this.

Seems a good place to stop for now------------to be continued.
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  #30  
Old June 4th, 2008, 01:15 PM
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John B.
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What is your overall tire height?
32"

What about the tach? Is it dead on at 3000 rpm.
Yes tach is accurate.

Does your truck do 80 mile an hour safely?

Yes, but that is 3600 rpm...so I tend not to drive there much.

Are the wheel bearings in good service with good grease. Not set to tight or to loose. Are the brakes in good service with no dragging calipers and a healthy hydraulic system. Healthy would mean can the pads retract correctly without interferance from old brake lines or collapsing hard lines. Are the transmission/transfer case in good order with no increased drag from worn internals. Good fluid of correct viscosity. Synthetic fluids help the cause as well. This goes for your differentials as well. No extra drag from wear and good fluids, synthetic recommended.
Yes to all. Synthetic fluids throughout.

Up to an inch lift should be able to get good mileage. Another factor-how soft is your suspension. Does you truck lean back under acceleration like a dune runner. Not good for mileage. The drivetrains does not need to work against a soft suspension.
Suspension is fine. Basically stock with OME dampers.

You need an accurate EGT gauge to tune the pump by my method. VDO and similar seem good.
I use an indsutrial thermocouple meter with visible and audible alarms and min/max storage. Currently max at 1175 F with sustained full throttle at 3000 rpm.

Is the cooling system in good order? Can it hold temperature at sustained highway speeds?
Rad is new. No problems holding 190 F steady under any conditions.

Need a boost gauge installed.

Have boost gauge reading from the inlet manifold. Boost is controlled with a Boostvalve. The turbo won't make more than 15 psi at this altitude. Not sure if it is normal for a 200TDI turbo or if mine is bad or if just because high boost fuelling is stock ATM.
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  #31  
Old June 5th, 2008, 08:18 AM
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Jim C.
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Wow, great writeup Jim. Thanks for taking the time. I'll be waiting for the second chapter.

'94 D-90 300Tdi/ZF ST
1.2 T Case
255-85 BFG's
4.11 gears


Averaging about 22-23MPG with a mix of city and highway. Truck will cruise nicely at 70, but has not yet seen 80.

j(hypermiler wanna-be)C
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  #32  
Old June 5th, 2008, 11:00 AM
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jim pendleton
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See notes attached


Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
What is your overall tire height?
32"

I actually like your tire height with your transfer case.

What about the tach? Is it dead on at 3000 rpm.
Yes tach is accurate.

Are you sure the tach is correct at 3000. Often the tach is correct at idle and then incorrect at 3000rpm

Does your truck do 80 mile an hour safely?

Yes, but that is 3600 rpm...so I tend not to drive there much.

Are the wheel bearings in good service with good grease. Not set to tight or to loose. Are the brakes in good service with no dragging calipers and a healthy hydraulic system. Healthy would mean can the pads retract correctly without interferance from old brake lines or collapsing hard lines. Are the transmission/transfer case in good order with no increased drag from worn internals. Good fluid of correct viscosity. Synthetic fluids help the cause as well. This goes for your differentials as well. No extra drag from wear and good fluids, synthetic recommended.
Yes to all. Synthetic fluids throughout.

Up to an inch lift should be able to get good mileage. Another factor-how soft is your suspension. Does you truck lean back under acceleration like a dune runner. Not good for mileage. The drivetrains does not need to work against a soft suspension.
Suspension is fine. Basically stock with OME dampers.

You need an accurate EGT gauge to tune the pump by my method. VDO and similar seem good.
I use an indsutrial thermocouple meter with visible and audible alarms and min/max storage. Currently max at 1175 F with sustained full throttle at 3000 rpm.

[COLOR=Purple]Turn the pump diaphram up to max out at 1200 to 1300. 1 o'clock towards 2 o'clock position. Does boost go up to 16psi now?[COLOR=Black]

Is the cooling system in good order? Can it hold temperature at sustained highway speeds?
Rad is new. No problems holding 190 F steady under any conditions.

Need a boost gauge installed.

Have boost gauge reading from the inlet manifold. Boost is controlled with a Boostvalve. The turbo won't make more than 15 psi at this altitude. Not sure if it is normal for a 200TDI turbo or if mine is bad or if just because high boost fuelling is stock ATM.
If boost does not go up to 16-17 when you clock the diaphram 1-2 o'clock its time to adjust the mechanical threaded arm between the wastgate actuator and turbo dump valve. Shorten it.

JP

Follow-up Post:

Okay today-------Engine condition

Is air filter and its associated plumbing in good condition. Air filter box sealed up well. Tube to turbo in good shape. Pcv valve clean and working. Intercooler hard and flex lines in good condition and routed to keep them from coming to harm in the near future. Its nice to fasten the lower intercooler line on a 300 tdi to keep it from flexing with boost. Is the intake/exhaust gasket in good shape and not split and allowing forced air to escape. I use a smoke machine to verify this. If its an old gasket best just to change it and know what you are dealing with. Take care with the turbo oil lines.

Is the timing belt relaxed? I can feel it by turning at the crankshaft and watching the pump pulley through its opening. Is timing set so the set pin can move in and out freely at TDC? Does the engine have a certain ping to it at idle? The factory does not give a TDC degree for the engine to run at. I like the engine to run at 11 degree BTDC. The older engines ran at this figure. 9-10 degree BTDC is acceptable. An expensive timing light can be sought out to check this. Or you can spill time it like the older Mercedes engines used to. Look at their workshop manual for details or maybe google is your uncle. Regardless you will need to find and set TDC with reference marks on the front cover that correspond to TDC. Don't trust the factory settings/holding pin. Verify it at least once.

Verify TDC. Dial indicator on most forward valve spring retainer cap. Manually push down on valve as #1 piston is coming up to TDC. Arrange 10 thou before 0 and 10 thou after TDC moving the piston up and down with valve pushed against it. Final step is pushing valve down and rotating piston up to correct TDC. This TDC needs to be recorded on the front cover with a mark that corresponds to another mark on the balancer. Compare to factory TDC setting. Now measure the circumference of the balancer. Do the math and figure out a measurement to find 10degree BTDC. Use this new mark to spill time the truck and readjust the injection pump to suit the advanced timing.

If this is difficult to understand research it in other workshop manuals to get a more detailed explanation.

Continued engine condition. Compression test? How do numbers compare to each other? Wet and dry. Warm engine after shut down. Cool engine after sitting. Cylinder leakage test. A cylinder leakage test with the rocker shaft disconnected is my favorite. To find where the leaking air is going with both valves known to be shut and not on a overlapping part of the camshaft.

Are valves adjusted properly? Any tight valves? Tight valves are good to investigate with the leakeage test.

Injectors-good pattern? Can you test on bench? Or at pump shop? Can we extrude hone your injectors? I will try to post information on an inexpensive place to have that done, later. But an injector in poor condition is not a candidate for this. So best to find out first. Some time ago I made a line for a different engine that would fasten in place of one of the hard lines and come up above the engine so I could use the engines injection pump to drive injectors for testing. I have a manual tester so I do not do it that way for these engines. Something you could investigate for a low buck approach.

Continued later------
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  #33  
Old June 5th, 2008, 11:14 AM
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John B.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
If boost does not go up to 16-17 when you clock the diaphram 1-2 o'clock its time to adjust the mechanical threaded arm between the wastgate actuator and turbo dump valve. Shorten it.
I'm using a Boost Valve to control the wastegate. A much better method than adjusting the actuator. Also keep in mind that the 200TDI is running a different turbo to the 300TDI.

The tach is accurate. As stated earlier, I am running an early style LT77. These have a 0.83:1 5th gear which obviously is lower than the normal 200TDi gearbox of 0.77 or the the R380s.

I'll fart with the pump when I get a chance if the weather ever clears. All it wants to do is rain here this spring.
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  #34  
Old June 5th, 2008, 11:33 AM
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Jim-

I've been meaning to turn down the fuel for a while. These days I feel a little bit guilty putting out the amount of smoke I am.

So, I've just adjusted the washer so 3 oclock is "most rearward for the pin" or full rich. I'm going to bolt it back together with the indicator hole at about 12:30 oclock ish. (when I took it apart it appears that it was set at pretty much fully open back when we were fucking with it in Albuquerque). What kind of increments should I be looking to adjust in? would there be any fuel at all in the 9-oclock position?
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  #35  
Old June 5th, 2008, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
As stated earlier, I am running an early style LT77. These have a 0.83:1 5th gear which obviously is lower than the normal 200TDi gearbox of 0.77 or the the R380s.
Did not catch the early LT77 mention. Is it a good box? Should we start looking for its replacement?

I hear you on the rain. Its like that for us as well.

But get an umbrella-I am pouring out the info here and your just sitting back refuting it. Action man, action.
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  #36  
Old June 5th, 2008, 11:34 AM
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I agree the 1.4 transfer case would be OK if I was running an R380.... My feelings are the 1.2 would be better with my gearbox especially with the 4:1 1st gear.

Air filter new with new intake hoses and Southdown snorkel.

Intercooler plumbing is stock hard lines with new silicone elbows.

Gaskets have not been checked. No boost leak noises are evident.

Timing belt was supposed to be new when I bought the engine a year or so ago. I'm not sure this is the case and will change it one of these days. I've set the timing per the book (with the pins) plus around 2 degrees of extra advance. The engine "sounds" correct to my ear...not that I'm an expert. I'll have to try more accurate methods as you've described.

Valves are adjusted per the book.

Injectors are all new and genuine (I got the set for $120 on eBay )
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  #37  
Old June 5th, 2008, 11:45 AM
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I just bolted it back together with the diaphram set at 12:30. (per setting the washer so 3 oclock is full rich). Still putting out some nice smoke but I think it's noticably less. Going to go for a run out on the road and see if there is any difference. How lean can I realistically set it?
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  #38  
Old June 5th, 2008, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
Did not catch the early LT77 mention. Is it a good box? Should we start looking for its replacement?
Ah, a fine debate there.... Ashcrofts will say it is not strong enough.... Others are running lots of power into them without trouble.

Regardless, mine is in fine shape and I'm a cheap bastard. Actually, I would prefer to keep it as it has a 4:1 1st gear and would hate to lose that off road by going to a newer box. If I ever do break it, I suppose I would break down and get one of those factory new short bellhousing R380s. A few around here have gone that way and it is cost effective and a straight bolt in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
But get an umbrella-I am pouring out the info here and your just sitting back refuting it. Action man, action.
LOL... Working on it is fine. It is just hard to monitor variations in smoke levels when test driving in the rain. I also don't like comparing EGTs with a wet intercooler, apples and oranges.
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  #39  
Old June 5th, 2008, 01:09 PM
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Jim C.
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Whew, send some rain our way. "Mad dogs and Englishmen" weather has arrived.

Supposed to be 98 degrees today, and 99 tomorrow with no rain in sight.
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  #40  
Old June 5th, 2008, 01:49 PM
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I set the diaphram to about 11 oclock. Smoke is essentially gone and I'm getting 15 lbs of boost...

Going to call it good.
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