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  #41  
Old July 6th, 2015, 01:48 PM
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The road death rate has nothing to do with vehicle inspections, which you seem to be missing. Vehicle inspections are governed by states and vary from place to place. The main reason for the higher death rate is driver training and enforcement.

Like said above, UK roads are horrendous. Worst 1st world roads I've seen especially considering the population density.
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  #42  
Old July 6th, 2015, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
The road death rate has nothing to do with vehicle inspections, which you seem to be missing. Vehicle inspections are governed by states and vary from place to place. The main reason for the higher death rate is driver training and enforcement.

Like said above, UK roads are horrendous. Worst 1st world roads I've seen especially considering the population density.
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  #43  
Old July 6th, 2015, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by leeds View Post
I despair! It is a LICENCE FEE. If you use the service/facility you pay for it. It is NOT a TAX Don't use a TV and you do not pay Yes the US has a larger population then the UK The death rate is worked out as the number of deaths per 100,000 population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate The death rate in the US per 100,000 of population is 11.6 is much higher then the death rate per 100,000 of the UK population of 3.5, despite the UK apparently has much more dangerous roads then the UK. That means the US has 8.1 more deaths per 100,000 in comparison to the UK. US population is about 319,000,000 or 3190 x 100,000. So multiply 3190 x 8.1 = 25,839 road fatalities more then the UK The US has probably the worst road death rate in the western world and is on par with countries in the developing world! Not exactly a record to be proud of. I wonder what the families of the US road fatality victims would say? Would they be horrified that the US death rate was so much higher then UK/Europe or would they say it is OK it does not matter we have less laws and less interference from government! Brendan
Brendan,
Ok, it's a fee. A fee to watch tv, you got me. So it's a tax then to drive on the roads and not a fee? Look, if you think MOTs make it more safe here, then more power to you, it's your country. Perhaps American roads are statically more unsafe, but I have been all over the world and these are the worst roads I've ever seen. Wouldn't you rather have a society where people take responsibility for their own lives, rather than have the government dictate everything to you? How does a rusty door on a Land Rover make you more unsafe on the road? Who is it that gets to decide these standards? Where does the standardization stop? Deep rabbit hole brother. Great country, great people, but thank God for 1776.
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  #44  
Old July 6th, 2015, 02:17 PM
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John,
He isn't listening. You are better off yelling into a garbage can. You will get the same results but you will feel better.
True. Sometimes it is best to step slowly away from the internet.
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  #45  
Old July 6th, 2015, 03:51 PM
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The American psyche is a wonderful unexplained mystery of the natural world!

Quote:
Perhaps American roads are statically more unsafe,
There is no perhaps about it. The US roads are definitely more dangerous then UK roads on the standard rates of death/100,000 people, deaths per 100,000 vehicles or deaths per billion km travelled. However you appear to struggle with that concept.

Quote:
but I have been all over the world and these are the worst roads I've ever seen.
Hmmm really? I would agree that the standard of the UK roads have deteoriated in recent years. They may be the worse roads you have seen, certainly not the worst I have seen. Try New Zealand where trains and motor vehicles which share the same single track bridge, try Australia where some roads are closed to all forms of traffic in wet weather, try Malaysia where potholes cause major issues, try some of the roads in north Norway where actual speed possible is darn sight slower then Sweden or the ruts on German autobhans

Quote:
Wouldn't you rather have a society where people take responsibility for their own lives, rather than have the government dictate everything to you? How does a rusty door on a Land Rover make you more unsafe on the road
Yes people should take responsibility for their own lives and other peoples lives. A rusty Land Rover door would not in itself be a MOT failure unless the door was so badly rusted it presented a danger to the occupants/pedestrians. Our 20 year old Defender passes the MOT. It now gets an advisory on a small chip in the windscreen which has been there from 2008 when it got hit by a stone from an Australian road train. It has only had an advisory in last two years. Yes door frames are rusty but no issues for the MOT.



MOT introduced early 1960's and it started to get some real clapped out old bangers off the UK roads.

Seat belt laws changed during the 1980's-90's notice the reduction in deaths

Now some explanation for decrease in UK road deaths

Quote:

Data has been collected since 1926, in which year there were 4,886 fatalities in some 124,000 crashes.[n 1] Between 1951 and 2006 a total of 309,144 people were killed and 17.6 million were injured in accidents on British roads.[n 2] The highest number of deaths in any one year was 9,169 people in 1941 during World War II. The highest figure during peacetime was 7,985 in 1966.[n 3]

Figures for reported deaths, serious injuries and slight injuries have generally decreased since 1966. Since 1992, the ten-year drop in killed or seriously injured casualty numbers reported to the police, compared with the previous five-year average, has been about 40%.[1]

In 1987, the government set the first national casualty reduction target. The target set was that road casualties should drop by one-third by the year 2000 in comparison to the average numbers for the years 1981 to 1985. The target was exceeded, with the number of fatalities dropping by 39% and the number of serious injuries dropping by 45% over that period.[2]

In 1999, when Great Britain had the safest roads in Europe apart from Sweden, the government set a new national casualty reduction target, to be met by the year 2010. The target for 2010, compared to the average for the years 1994 to 1998, was a reduction of 40% in the number of people Killed or Seriously Injured (KSI) casualties, a reduction of 50% the number of children KSI casualties and a reduction of 10% in the rate of people slightly injured per 100 million vehicle kilometres.[2] By 2009, the results were: killed or seriously injured 44% lower; children killed or seriously injured 61% lower and the slight casualty rate was 37% lower.[n 4]

Now who wants to explain why the US road fatality rate is among the worse in the western world and is on a par with countries in the developing world.

Who wants to explain why Americans seem to just accept such a disgraceful record?

So what is the American government doing to improve the road safety of its citizens?



Brendan
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  #46  
Old July 6th, 2015, 04:43 PM
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Dude, no one is arguing that your statistics are incorrect. We are just saying that a highly subjective yearly examination of your vehicle has little to no impact on less people dying on the roads. One of my failures was for a rusty door. The guy showed it to me. A danger to pedestrians?? Really?
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  #47  
Old July 6th, 2015, 04:58 PM
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The federal govt. actually does quite a bit. They have mandated federal construction standards since the late 60s that were, up until recently, well in excess of what was in place in Europe. These standards are the reason the Defender wasn't sold here after 1997, it could not pass the occupant protection standard when airbag requirements came out.

However, periodic inspection falls under state authority, so it varies from state to state. Some have fairly aggressive vehicle safety inspections, some have nothing. Commercial vehicles fall under different rules and they generally get looked at annually, very carefully.

Seeing the type of welding repair that is considered adequate for an MOT on imported trucks, I think that any type of structural repair for an MOT is more of a scam than an actual safety improvement. Most of the "MOT welding" jobs would cause a vehicle to be scrapped here.

I find it funny that Canadian figures are very close to the U.K. ones, even though our road conditions are absolutely horrible compared to yours, and we have to contend with winter driving conditions. Mind you, most provinces have mechanical inspections, and they are much tougher than the MOTs in the UK. And, statistically, Canadians wear their seat belts.
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  #48  
Old July 6th, 2015, 05:03 PM
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http://www.just-mots.co.uk/avoid-mot-scams

Most common scam....unfair failures....obviously! The problem is they collocate the testing stations with a garage....it's a conflict of interest.
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  #49  
Old July 6th, 2015, 05:06 PM
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Agreed... while visiting a friend in Nova Scotia, we had to get a 110 inspected and the inspection resulted in a list of things we ended up spending the rest of the day fixing so it could pass the next day.

I honestly think Andy's MOT was the result of a shop looking for some solid repair money from a foreigner.
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  #50  
Old July 6th, 2015, 05:53 PM
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As I have said before it is common in the UK to use a MOT station which does not do repairs, or take it to a garage which uses a separate MOT station. For instance a local main dealer use an MOT station about 5 miles away. The local MOT station we also use know they will get any repair work. A local mechanic we use who is a lapsed MOT inspector who does repair work takes it to a separate MOT station. Our household currently has 2 Defenders down from 3 but shortly will be up to 4 Defenders ranging from brand new to 20 years old so we are used to the MOT system.

There is a straightforward appeal process if you think your vehicle has been failed unfairly.

Dodgy MOTs are not very common these days as the MOT stations are online to a central computer.

It is VERY easy to check if a vehicle has a valid MOT or not.

The MOT Test manual is online here Finding an MOT test centre is easy with UKMOT.Com


In Andy's case there is no argument that the way the vehicle was presented to the MOT inspector it was a failure. Missing seatbelts is a failure and there is no argument they are either there or not there, end of story. Missing seatbelts are a major safety hazard. OK you may argue there was some confusion between Andy the garage and the MOT inspector but the vehicle as presented to the MOT inspector was a failure.


Now then who is going to explain the reason behind the US road fatality rate?



Brendan
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  #51  
Old July 6th, 2015, 05:57 PM
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We don't have to.

BTW: We beat Germany and Japan to win the World Cup.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #52  
Old July 6th, 2015, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by leeds View Post
death rate in the US per 100,000 of population is 11.6 is much higher then the death rate per 100,000 of the UK population of 3.5, despite the UK apparently has much more dangerous roads then the UK. That means the US has 8.1 more deaths per 100,000 in comparison to the UK. US population is about 319,000,000 or 3190 x 100,000. So multiply 3190 x 8.1 = 25,839 road fatalities more then the UK
We drive more. What an average commute to work and back in the UK? I'm guessing it's not far or time consuming. Heck by reading some posts I've seen on the Internet, people in the UK aren't willing to drive anywhere for anything. I've seen people post about Land Rover parts they would GIVE away and they are turned down because they are more than 20 miles away.
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  #53  
Old July 6th, 2015, 07:07 PM
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$8 a gallon in UK and crazy insurance rates mean most people drive as little as possible.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #54  
Old July 6th, 2015, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeds View Post

Now then who is going to explain the reason behind the US road fatality rate?

Brendan
Q1 - How many miles do you drive a year?

Q2 - Have you ever driven in North America?

Q3 - What is your commute?

This should put things in context for us.
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  #55  
Old July 6th, 2015, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
$8 a gallon in UK and crazy insurance rates
Hold on, why are the insurance rates crazy high if the road fatality rate is so low?

Confused?!?
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  #56  
Old July 7th, 2015, 02:42 AM
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Hold on, why are the insurance rates crazy high if the road fatality rate is so low? Confused?!?
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  #57  
Old July 7th, 2015, 07:17 AM
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OK, so fundamentally there is a MOT process that has good intentions like motorist safety, we all get it.
Seatbelts are required for safety fine, good, and very foine.
The standards that are suppose to be followed during inspection are one thing and the interpretation of those standards, laws, whatever become a matter of common sense within the practical application of the limited abilities of those doing the work and really understanding what they are looking at and evaluating it all on a pass fail, item by item.

Unless you know precisely who you're dealing with and how practical they are or are not, when it comes to inspections, it's pretty much luck of the draw.

Years ago was getting a IIA 109 inspected in VA.
The inspector pulled off a drum and got out calipers and measured the brake shoe thickness and failed the vehicle because the brand new riveted shoes were "worn down".
The vehicle failed for 2 reasons: worn down brake shoes and the spare tire mounted on the bonnet.
Never mind that the brake shoes were new and only on the vehicle for a week or so.
So ordered another new genuine set of front brake shoes from RN and never opened the box.
Took the box down to the inspector and explained that I was opening a box of new genuine brake shoes from the Land Rover North American parts supplier Rovers North.
When the box was opened, I handed the new shoes to the inspector who opened the Land Rover box, measured the shoes and told me to bring the vehicle in for a sticker.
Made sure the spare was not on the bonnet because I didn't want to push it too much.
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  #58  
Old October 27th, 2015, 04:19 PM
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Follow up on MOT shenanigans

Ok....I'll admit when I'm wrong. I still think MOTs are highly subjective. However, over the last few months after having a guy tear apart my rover to fix my rust issues, it appears the inspector was more than correct. But, thanks to that my rover now has a new rear cross member, a new middle cross member, semi-new fabricated front and middle floor panels and new door posts. Still more rust to deal with but definitely a lot better now. Big thanks tell a fellow local D-90 member "Mr. Nasty" who recommended a great local welder working out a what looked like a WWII bomb shelter off the end of Mildenhall's runway. Here are some pictures with the before and after minus the new rear crossmember. And also, I must report that the Rover passed MOT today WITH NO ADVISORIES!! Now I just need to pay the Queen a bit of tax to drive on the roads and 110 lives again.....
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