MOT Shenanigans in the UK - Page 2 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old July 5th, 2015, 09:33 AM
genie90's Avatar
genie90
Status: Offline
Jay Geaney
1994 D-90 ST #282
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR, USA
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
Brendan as a Brit living in the U.S. you are wasting your efforts trying to bring social benefit logic into these debates.
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that Brits are bashing on Americans' desire for less government interference, and insulting our intelligence as a whole, on this of all weekends?

My comment has nothing to do with the original MOT post, as this thread has long since derailed.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #22  
Old July 5th, 2015, 11:18 AM
Rocky's Avatar
Rocky
Status: Online
Chris
72 + D1 drivetrain
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colonies Aka Boston
Posts: 8,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
Brendan as a Brit living in the U.S. you are wasting your efforts trying to bring social benefit logic into these debates.
As a Brit living in the US since 1986, I have long been assimilated and adopted by this Country.
I approve Leastone's response!
__________________
A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old July 5th, 2015, 12:40 PM
javelinadave
Status: Offline
-
-
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: -
Posts: 5,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by genie90 View Post
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that Brits are bashing on Americans' desire for less government interference, and insulting our intelligence as a whole, on this of all weekends?

My comment has nothing to do with the original MOT post, as this thread has long since derailed.
Somewhere in the history books some MOT agent failed George Washington's horse and the Revolution was on.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #24  
Old July 5th, 2015, 01:05 PM
genie90's Avatar
genie90
Status: Offline
Jay Geaney
1994 D-90 ST #282
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR, USA
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Somewhere in the history books some MOT agent failed George Washington's horse and the Revolution was on.
True that!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image-3744124772.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	266.1 KB
ID:	124330  
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old July 5th, 2015, 02:08 PM
leastonce's Avatar
leastonce
Status: Offline
Jason England
D-90 White 95 SW #65
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,078
Registry
Somewhere in here there is some irony about an American being in the UK having to follow laws and paying taxes without representation.
__________________
Quote:
Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
Car Camping Collective founding member and Chief Executive Officer
Cat Camping Collective founding member and Chief Executive Officer
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old July 5th, 2015, 02:19 PM
javelinadave
Status: Offline
-
-
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: -
Posts: 5,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
Somewhere in here there is some irony about an American being in the UK having to follow laws and paying taxes without representation.
In the words of Al Not-So-Sharpton.. "That's an outrage"!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old July 5th, 2015, 02:57 PM
Rocky's Avatar
Rocky
Status: Online
Chris
72 + D1 drivetrain
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colonies Aka Boston
Posts: 8,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
Somewhere in here there is some irony about an American being in the UK having to follow laws and paying taxes without representation.
That was me years ago until I took US citizenship after my first child was born.
__________________
A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old July 5th, 2015, 05:14 PM
leeds
Status: Offline
Brendan
1996/110 TDi
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bradford
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by genie90 View Post
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that Brits are bashing on Americans' desire for less government interference, and insulting our intelligence as a whole, on this of all weekends?

My comment has nothing to do with the original MOT post, as this thread has long since derailed.

I do struggle to understand the American psyche at times!

The British MOT is basically an annual safety check on road vehicles. The requirements of the MOT are set down by the UK government. The test stations are controlled in the UK by the DVSA (Drivers and Vehicle Standards Agency) who are mainly independent companies. There are procedures set down to appeal against any MOT findings.

There are very little shenanigans in UK MOTs these days. Dodgy MOTs are mainly a matter of the past as the MOTs are controlled. i.e. an MOT takes about 40 minutes and at the start of the MOT it is logged into the system and will not be completed until the allocated time has past.

Most garages who are working on a car normally takes the vehicle to an independent MOT station so that they can not be accused of 'finding work' It is not uncommon for a garage just to do a quick check then submit the vehicle to an independent MOT station to find out exactly what work needs doing, do the work then get a retest done.

In the case of the OP it would appear he requested certain work to be done prior to the vehicle being submitted for an MOT but this was not done. The MOT inspector in that case did his job correctly and failed a vehicle which at the date of the MOT was unfit to be on the UK roads.

Now how the UK MOT can be considered as ridiculous or government interference or insulting is beyond me. Government has a duty to set various standards including road safety, speed limits, drink drive limits etc. Once the standards are set then independent test stations decide if a vehicle meets the UK roadworthy standards or not.

Now if the US could get its road deaths down to normal UK/European level there would be approximately 27,000 less fatalities on US roads per year. Surely that is something worth looking into?

As for UK Road tax this is applicable to all UK registered cars irrelevant to the nationality or occupation of the vehicle owner.The UK visiting military personnel concessions acts covers things like VAT however it does NOT extend to road fund tax.


Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old July 5th, 2015, 05:24 PM
javelinadave
Status: Offline
-
-
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: -
Posts: 5,394
Brendan,
You are assuming that all those deaths are associated with mechanical failures. I have no idea what the actual statistic is but I would guess it is a very very small number.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old July 5th, 2015, 05:41 PM
D90Overkill's Avatar
D90Overkill
Status: Offline
David Frank
1995 ST #2615
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Napa, CA. United States
Posts: 4,864
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeds View Post
Now if I was a US citizen I would be asking the government why they are not doing more about road safety in the US as it is one of the highest in the western world...
Most of us don't ask the government for anything other than to get out of our business. Mechanicals, as Dave had stated, are probably only to blame in a small percentage of cases. We drive for pleasure here! And with fuel prices still far below those in the UK, we do it with reckless abandon! Sometimes, with disastrous consequences. But it's a past time that's part of our culture. We are crazy for speed, power, noise, wide open roads and the wind in our face, etc...

Your figures support this philosophy!
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old July 5th, 2015, 06:35 PM
leeds
Status: Offline
Brendan
1996/110 TDi
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bradford
Posts: 68
I am not assuming anything about the proportion of road deaths in the USA being due to mechanical failure.

Nor do I say anything about mechanical failure playing a part in UK road deaths.

Road deaths in the UK is running at about 1,700 per year which is made up of 46% car occupants, 23% pedestrian, 19% motor bike riders, 6% pedal cyclist, 5% others (e.g. horse riders, coach passengers etc)





Quote:

There are a number of factors which are likely to have contributed
to falling numbers of people killed or injured in reported road traffic
accidents. There is evidence to suggest that economic recessions
have accelerated decreases in road traffic deaths. The two periods of
large falls in road deaths since 1979 (1990-94 and 2006-10) coincided
with the 1990-92 and 2008-09 recessions. There is also evidence that
the average traffic speed in free flow areas as well as the proportion
of drivers exceeding the speed limit has decreased over the last
decade. This might not only help drivers avoid accidents altogether,
but also might reduce the severity and number of casualties when
they do occur. Technological and engineering improvements to
vehicles and highways will have played a similar role in both avoiding
accidents and minimising their consequences. Improved education
and training is likely to have produced better and safer drivers. Finally,
improvements in trauma care (and in particular the creation of
major trauma centres in England) are likely to have helped improve
outcomes once an accident has taken place.



It could be argued that the UK MOT decreases the likelihood of road deaths by mechanical failure as cars which are considered unsafe are not allowed on UK roads.


Germany has much cheaper fuel then the UK by about 40%, has higher speed limits and has slightly higher death rates but nowhere near the US level. The higher German road death rate could be partially due to the number of Eastern European drivers whose countries have a much higher death rate but still not as high as the US!



Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old July 5th, 2015, 06:54 PM
javelinadave
Status: Offline
-
-
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: -
Posts: 5,394
You also need to consider that a drivers license here in the States is basically a right. Any drooling moron can get one with little to no training. A drivers license in any Western European country requires actual training and a demonstration of skills and abilities. Two different animals and an MOT here wouldn't fix a thing. Stupid is as stupid does. On and off the road.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old July 5th, 2015, 07:09 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,235
Registry
And that is the heart of the problem. No training and horrendous drivers. Not that they are great in the UK but it a big step up.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old July 6th, 2015, 10:45 AM
atpick's Avatar
atpick
Status: Offline
Andy
1990 110
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 290
Registry
Why do you need to the government to tell you how to maintain your car? It's called personal responsibility. The reason there are so many accidents in the UK is not because of MOTs, it's because the roads are tiny, horrendous, and very dangerous. Perhaps instead of spending your tax dollars, or pounds I guess, to pay for a driving standards agency, you guys should design safer roads.

------ Follow up post added July 6th, 2015 08:48 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
Somewhere in here there is some irony about an American being in the UK having to follow laws and paying taxes without representation.
Ha, love it. So true. Road tax on every car, VAT which you can get back in some instances (if the retailer participates, and a TV tax....yes a tax to watch freakin TV here....go USA
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old July 6th, 2015, 11:20 AM
leeds
Status: Offline
Brendan
1996/110 TDi
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bradford
Posts: 68
You certainly live and learn.

A driving permit/licence is a 'right' in the US, in my mind with 'rights' go responsibilities

A driving licence in the UK is a privilige earned by taking various tests which will be revoked if you get 12 points on your licence or commit a serious offence such as drink/drive.

OK I googled US driving test and found out that age for a driving permit varies between 14-21 dependent on the state. 14 years is too young in my mind to be in control of a couple of tons of motor car which can kill.


I come across this article An American tribute to British drivers | Judd Birdsall | Comment is free | The Guardian

Quote:

The United States and the United Kingdom have many important similarities, but a rigorous driving test is not one of them. As an American who recently passed the UK driving theory and practical tests, I have newfound respect for all the motorists I encounter on British roads.

To get my American license when I was 16 years old, I had to take a very short multiple choice theory test. Having not studied and never driven, I passed easily. Then I took a practical test that consisted of a 15-minute amble through a flat rural area. I performed poorly, and at the end of my test the examiner turned to me and said, "You really don't know what you're doin', do ya?" And he passed me.

and

Quote:

My American compatriots are shocked when I tell them that to earn a UK license I had to take a lengthy theory test, computerized hazard perception test, eye sight test, vehicle safety test, and a 40-minute driving test with a meticulous examiner jotting down each of my "faults" in real time.

As my faults mounted during the test, I prayed that we would turn back toward the test centre before I surpassed the maximum level of acceptable faultiness. I'm a married homeowner who drives an MPV with two toddlers in car seats; I'm hardly a risk-taker on the road. But I am an American. The examiner perceived my hazardousness and marked me down for not looking in my mirrors before I signalled – seven times.

Now I'm always conscious of looking in the mirrors before I signal and manoeuvre. Thanks to the rigors of the UK driving test, I'm a much safer driver, and I'm glad that I share the road with a nation of drivers who had to pass the same demanding test.

The people of Great Britain can be rightfully proud of their great driving skills. Whereas the easy US tests make me wary of American drivers, here in the UK, I've embraced the mantra Keep Calm and Drive On.


OK have only quoted part of the article.



Now the US has a road fatality figure many times per capita higher then most of the Western world. That is about 27,000 extra deaths per year.

Now in my mind (OK I am a UK citizen and not a US citizen!) it is part of government duties to set various standards as well as protect its citizens. Now I can almost hear the American outrage when I suggest that maybe the American government to set a standard age for a driving permit and a UK style driving test.

Do I get the flak jacket/helmet on now? Cries of US citizen rights/interference from government etc.

Get the US road death rates to typical European level would save about 27,000 lives per year and who knows how many seriously injured?

To put this in context the US lost about 2,500 killed and 20,000 injured in 14 years in Afghanistan.

So should the US government take steps to reduce the fatalities on US roads, help protect its citizens or just say Americans have the right to drive as they like and ignore the fact that they probably have the worse road related death rate in the Western world?


It will be interesting to see what I think of American driving when we hire a car in the US come October. Have driven in Mexico and Canada as well as many other parts of the world never in the US.


Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old July 6th, 2015, 11:55 AM
oilburner's Avatar
oilburner
Status: Offline
JL
large pile of parts
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: No guns, no crime, no one
Posts: 504
Oh come on Jeff. You guys have given up countless liberties against the threat of domestic terrorism, which is about as likely to kill you as a satellite falling out of the sky onto your house while you sleep.
__________________
JL
1994 Defender 110 300TDI 3 door
Series/Defender 6BT/NV4500 crew cab project (slowly merging with the above)
Diesel-swapped 1994 80 series Land-cruiser
And a difflocked 4wd turbodiesel Lambo
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old July 6th, 2015, 12:30 PM
flippedrover's Avatar
flippedrover
Status: Offline
Tyler
'94 D-90
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ashburn,va
Posts: 3,125
Really it's job security for EMS😁
__________________
Can't you feel 'em circlin' (closin'in) honey?
Can't you feel 'em swimmin' around?
You got fins to the left, fins to the right,
and you're the only bait in town.
You got fins to the left, fins to the right,
and you're the only girl in town.

Jimmy Buffett


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old July 6th, 2015, 12:39 PM
leeds
Status: Offline
Brendan
1996/110 TDi
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bradford
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by atpick View Post
Why do you need to the government to tell you how to maintain your car? It's called personal responsibility. The reason there are so many accidents in the UK is not because of MOTs, it's because the roads are tiny, horrendous, and very dangerous. Perhaps instead of spending your tax dollars, or pounds I guess, to pay for a driving standards agency, you guys should design safer roads.

------ Follow up post added July 6th, 2015 08:48 AM ------



Ha, love it. So true. Road tax on every car, VAT which you can get back in some instances (if the retailer participates, and a TV tax....yes a tax to watch freakin TV here....go USA

Now if the UK roads are tiny,horrendous and very dangerous which is what causes so many accidents please will you explain if US roads are so large, so beautiful and so safe why is the US road fatality rate so much higher then the UK and is amongst the highest in the Western world?

The US death rate is higher per head of population, per number of vehicles or by mileage driven.

IF the US could reduce its road death rate to the UK rate which apparently has such dangerous roads there would be 27,000 road fatalities LESS in the US.


I do struggle to understand the American psyche. On any standard measure of road safety the American roads are far more dangerous then the UK roads but according to Americans our rules/laws/government are ridiculous and our roads are dangerous!

We have given up our liberty to have safer roads then the US?


By the way there is no such thing as a tax to watch freaking TV in the UK. There is a TV licence fee which help funds the BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation), which has quite a worldwide high reputation as a TV and radio broadcaster which broadcasts without commercial advertising.

So if you do not wish to pay UK road fund tax, or TV licence fees there are some legal ways of avoiding both. Don't own a UK registered car or have a TV. Very simple.


Brendan
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old July 6th, 2015, 01:01 PM
atpick's Avatar
atpick
Status: Offline
Andy
1990 110
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 290
Registry
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tele...United_Kingdom

Required if live TV is received in your home so you better pay up if you haven't. They will bring the sweepers around and fine you.

Furthermore besides the fact that the population is much larger in the U.S., you equate more laws with more safety, which of course is not true. If you are so concerned with people dying in the roads then why not create a law that forbids all driving?
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old July 6th, 2015, 01:35 PM
leeds
Status: Offline
Brendan
1996/110 TDi
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Bradford
Posts: 68
I despair!


Quote:

In the United Kingdom and the Crown Dependencies, any household watching or recording live television transmissions as they are being broadcast (terrestrial, satellite, cable, or internet) is required to hold a television licence. Businesses, hospitals, schools and a range of other organisations are also required to hold television licences to watch and record live TV broadcasts.[1] Since 1 April 2010 the annual licence fee has been 145.50 for colour and 49.00 for black and white.[2][3][4] Income from the licence is primarily used to fund the television, radio and online services of the BBC. The total income from licence fees was 3.7261 billion in 201314[5] of which 607.8 million or 16.3% was provided by the Government through concessions for those over the age of 75. Thus, the licence fee made up the bulk of the BBC's total income of 5.066 billion in 20132014.[5]
It is a LICENCE FEE. If you use the service/facility you pay for it.

It is NOT a TAX Don't use a TV and you do not pay

Yes the US has a larger population then the UK

The death rate is worked out as the number of deaths per 100,000 population.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

The death rate in the US per 100,000 of population is 11.6 is much higher then the death rate per 100,000 of the UK population of 3.5, despite the UK apparently has much more dangerous roads then the UK. That means the US has 8.1 more deaths per 100,000 in comparison to the UK. US population is about 319,000,000 or 3190 x 100,000.

So multiply 3190 x 8.1 = 25,839 road fatalities more then the UK

The US has probably the worst road death rate in the western world and is on par with countries in the developing world!

Not exactly a record to be proud of.


I wonder what the families of the US road fatality victims would say? Would they be horrified that the US death rate was so much higher then UK/Europe or would they say it is OK it does not matter we have less laws and less interference from government!


Brendan
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
July 4th explosive shenanigans: Not pretty Rover110 Misc. Chit-Chat 53 July 12th, 2012 11:43 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:03 PM.


Copyright