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  #1  
Old February 26th, 2016, 09:44 AM
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More Friday Ramblings -- LR4 vs. G500

Price comparison wise, I know they are in a different place (G is nearly twice the price), but realistically they seem very closely matched specification wise. Internal and External dimensions are nearly the same. Engine performance and weight nearly the same, and in the end they preform the same roles in the automotive world. Add in that they seem like some of the last SUVís you can buy (in the US) that have true off road capabilities, and it seems to me that, from the standpoint of what they are and what they do, they are close competitors, no?

Now in my heart, I believe the D110 and the G are really more closely related. But Land Rover never really produced a D110 that went toe for toe with the G wagen (no lockers, no nearly 400 hp V8, no where near the interior quality, nor the inclusion of modern safety features like Air bags). And of course, there is the fact that Land Rover doesnít sell the D110 stateside.

And Iíd also be really curious which of these two are better off road if you donít let the G Wagen use its front or rear locker (even the playing field and make it about the truckís chassis/suspension engineering Ė Lockers can of course be added to the Defender). But all that said, Iím getting off track. Wasnít the title of this thread LR4 vs G500?

So anyway, I donít think there is any doubt the LR4 is better on the pavement. But my question is, which is better off-road? I know the G has solid axles and three lockers (Iím a Defender owner, I get it!). But it seems that (stock at least), axles articulation is less than stellar, making me wonder if it really has much of an advantage over the LR4ís pretty capable (for IFS/IRS) suspension?? If we were to compare an LR4 HD Package truck, and donít use the Gís front locker (again, level the playing field), what would be the outcome??

So letís hear your thoughts..
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  #2  
Old February 26th, 2016, 09:57 AM
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what
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Old February 26th, 2016, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
what
kind of what I'm thinking.. how is an LR4 better on pavement than a G500? apples and oranges in my opinion.. no comparison. I would take a g500 hands down .
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  #4  
Old February 26th, 2016, 10:01 AM
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If you have to ask this question, you've never done any off roading. An LR4 along with everything else they sell is not very good off road.
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Old February 26th, 2016, 10:22 AM
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Why level the playing field by deleting stock features, if you are trying to compare A vs B from the factory? Sure, I could build vehicle X in to a more capable off road vehicle by adding lockers, changing suspension, bumpers...but we are talking factory vs factory.

A G is more capable off road than a stock Defender 110 and an LR4. Only a Wrangler Rubicon at 1/3 the price ($40k vs $120k) would match or exceed each spec of the G. Perhaps a Range Rover as well would match up nicely. You are paying for status, capability, and supply v. demand with the G, and on all of those fronts, the LR4 falls short.
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Old February 26th, 2016, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
If you have to ask this question, you've never done any off roading. An LR4 along with everything else they sell is not very good off road.
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Old February 26th, 2016, 10:48 AM
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Was your intent to prove my point? Because that did it pretty well. It is pretty much at its limit on those moderate sections and they need to take forever getting through at that. Move to a difficult trail and you just need to park it. Find any soft terrain and they dig down to China.
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Old February 26th, 2016, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
what
Well to be fair, I did say it was ramblings. So I guess I didnít get my point across as clearly as I thought..

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
kind of what I'm thinking.. how is an LR4 better on pavement than a G500? apples and oranges in my opinion.. no comparison. I would take a g500 hands down .
Why is it apples and oranges? Because the Gís chassis design dates back to 1979 and uses solid axles front and rear, and the LR3/4 uses an IFS/IRS chassis introduced on 2005? If thatís what you mean, Iíd agree. It is also why I suspect the LR3/4 platform would be better on the road. Most reviews Iíve read about the G wagon tend to reference its ride and handling on road as a compromise born out of its off road capability. Not exactly glowing reviews for on road performance. But I admit I havenít driven a G Wagon. But the LR4 seems like a pretty good road car to me, and reviews Iíve read seem to echo that.

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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
If you have to ask this question, you've never done any off roading.
Well I donít think that is a fair statement, but weíre all entitled to our opinions. Iíve never been off road with a G Wagon, or an LR4, but I have done quite a bit of off-roading in my time.

I just came off a binge watching of Off-Road stuff on Youtube. It left me pretty impressed with some of the things I watched LR3/LR4ís do. I was also pretty unimpressed by the articulation G Wagons seem to show off road. Lockers front and rear can make a hero out of most anything in a lot of situations. So it got me thinking about currently available SUVís in the US.

It seems as though the current LR3/LR4 platform performs pretty well off road, even walking through areas where a stock Defender can have issues, by virtue of its traction control systems and rear locker. Iím not saying it is the ultimate off roader, and Iíd never like to have the Defender Ďshown-upí by an IFS/IRS, but from what I can see they can be pretty capable on true off road tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xjahx View Post
A G is more capable off road than a stock Defender 110 and an LR4. Only a Wrangler Rubicon at 1/3 the price ($40k vs $120k) would match or exceed each spec of the G. Perhaps a Range Rover as well would match up nicely. You are paying for status, capability, and supply v. demand with the G, and on all of those fronts, the LR4 falls short.
I guess my point is that it seems that the G MAY only be more capable off road by virtue of its stock locking differentials. Maybe I am wrong in my thinking, which it what I was hoping to Ďfigure outí in open discussion. We all realize the Ďlimitationsí of the radius arm style front suspension on the Defender. My understanding is that the G uses this design front and back, and it seems to have resulted in a lack of flex (I even see common chatter on G specific boards about the limited articulation). Iíve never seen RTI numbers on a G. Does anyone have any? Only thing I could turn up was a guy claiming to ramp 1100 plus in a stock two door, something was obviously amiss there.

I agree you are paying for status with the G, and that the LR4 falls short in that category. But I have no interest in that, Iím just trying to figure out if you are really getting more capability. And Iím not sure I agree an LR4 falls sort on capability in comparison, especially as an everyday road car, and off road, is what I am trying to figure out. So Iím not sure I agree that it is a reasonable premium when applied to the Ďcapabilityí piece of the equation.

P.S. Ė Love G 's like this one, not the 22Ē chrome wheeled wagons driven by the one-up you crowd..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Was your intent to prove my point? Because that did it pretty well. It is pretty much at its limit on those moderate sections and they need to take forever getting through at that. Move to a difficult trail and you just need to park it. Find any soft terrain and they dig down to China.
Iíve see that video as well. For what it is, and even on stock tires, Iíd say it does pretty well. Itís no purpose built Defender, but not bad when you consider what it is. Clearly you disagree, and thatís fine. Much more difficult, and Iíd suspect a sock Defender would have issues, and need to take its time as well. The point of the thread was to spark discussion, open minded preferably. I havenít been witness to it on the trail, but Iíve seen plenty videos of Ďmildí terrain stymie a stock defender cause it gets cross axled and its done. And the LR3/4 comes along behind it and walks right through it. Sure one tire is three feet in the air, but it continues on by virtue of its traction control and/or ability to lock its rear diff, and the Defender does not. It is what it is. But I suspect the G would fair similarly if it werenít able to use its front and rear lockers. And the Defender would have no issue if it had front and rear lockers.

Listen, Iím not exactly the first one to embrace new technology in cars. I still like mine with a manual gearbox and WITHOUT wifi connectivity (and my trucks with solid axles). But the reality is that electronic aids can and do work to increase the vehicles capabilities, but it seems many can argue the LR3/4 platform is pretty capable in comparison to most available, off the showroom floor options. Iíd prefer a Defender with lockers myself, but Iím not above admitting other ways can work as well.
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  #9  
Old February 29th, 2016, 10:58 PM
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Here's a good video that Andrew White made about the G-Wagen.

If you watch at about 6:55, you'll see the segment about the G-Wagen, and why I am confused about what you are saying



The G-wagen is just...a completely different vehicle from an LR4. It's like comparing a Ford Excursion to a Unimog. Once you do the research, you'll start to realize just how incredibly different these vehicles are, and why comparing them confuses the heck out of me.
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