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  #21  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:13 AM
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I am not defending Dan ( as he does not need my help, he is a big boy ), but come on people, all you are doing by posting something like this it is exactly activating Dan's playground; and be a big boy too, if Dan tells you Piss Off, grow some pelotas and tell him Piss off back. SIMPLE

Not many can rival his knowledge or on the money comments.

There are plenty of Dicks and Assholes in here, may not be perceived as such by some and indeed so by others, at the end, if you do not like someone, ignore him/her, use the tools provided to you to do so.

We have our forum to have fun, and lets do it.

Would I minimize comments that can cause harm on a For Sale thread? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY
Would I censor other threads ? NOPE

My Firearms Forum has a lock on the For Sale Threads, allowing the Seller to permit comments or not, perhaps we should do that here

My Opinion not that anyone cares


EDIT:

Arjun, well posted, I was typing when that happened.
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  #22  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
Deleting Chapman's account would go a long way...
Really? As much as an e-asshole that he can be in some threads, I think he does offer some insight. His input on that mtr kevlar thread was really good. And that Seafoam thread was entertaining. Attacking greenmtn's chevy D90 for sale post was harsh but he does have some points and might help a future buyer. And what if greenmtn was a scam. (Personally I do not as i know the area he is working from and his posts sound legit) Like Josh said move it to the open forum - I would love to hear about the pluses and minuses of a diesel chevy swap. If he just said f you and you suck then yes ban him but he does post why he thinks what he does. But could scale it back at times? Probably. But his post do make for interesting reads.

I personally think Neil's post on women and the club scene are much worse but I do enjoy reading them. And I can always ignore them if it gets to be too much.
  #23  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:17 AM
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Amazingly, even though I disagree with many of certain folks tactics (cough, cough...Dan) I will say that as of late even though he still causes some drama I likewise am now of the mind that banning someone may not be the way to go. As Arjun so eloquently pointed out it does come down to a freedom of speech issue which I'd be hard-pressed to go against.
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  #24  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:18 AM
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What was wrong with the Hanukkah jokes? I have noticed no one cared when Neil made insane Jewish jokes but as soon as he asked Horsey to take a load of his asian man batter everyone went nuts. I personally didn't mind any of his jokes and could careless. The thing about the Horsey/Neil/Barry jokes is that they aren't venomous for the most part. They make people laugh in the mocking. The real purpose of this thread is the fact people think Chapman is an asshole and want him gone. I will be the first to admit his posts have merit. He describes things accurately but the problem is he is doing it in a complete asshole manner. I love to mock but I don't go attacking people but then again we all have our style and he likes his. He likes that this thread exists. This is what he wants (I love describing him like he is a monster in a cave waiting to strike)

In any event I agree with Horsey, you want to destroy a for sale thread, start a conversation in the misc section and bash away (could provide amazing entertainment) When I sold my 110, it started in the fleamarket and some idiots bashed it nonstop. I moved it to the for sale section and people left it alone. Then again Chapman wasn't on the board then.

------ Follow up post added December 27th, 2011 08:19 AM ------

I am not for deleting anyone's account.
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  #25  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
It's not about censorship, it's about respecting others and not being a dick for no reason.
Agreed. There's been a shift in the tone of the forum over the last 8-10 months. While we're all big boys and girls, one of the attractions to the site over the years has been the sense of community. And that's taken a hit lately as far as I can tell.
  #26  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:37 AM
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Seeing this board come together and raise $13k in 48hrs for Bharris' was pretty remarkable and I think speaks to the sense of community. Yes there are several dicks on here or people that enjoy being dicks because they think its funny. I choose to ignore those along with most of Neils threads which personally I find pretty offensive. If youre going to start banning people id argue he should be the first go but I think many find his posts entertaining and once you start where do you stop?
  #27  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:38 AM
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Actually Barry, sometimes the Jewish jokes and / or comments regarding Israel bother me

But I have some thick skin and let them go





Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
What was wrong with the Hanukkah jokes? I have noticed no one cared when Neil made insane Jewish jokes but as soon as he asked Horsey to take a load of his asian man batter everyone went nuts. I personally didn't mind any of his jokes and could careless. The thing about the Horsey/Neil/Barry jokes is that they aren't venomous for the most part. They make people laugh in the mocking. The real purpose of this thread is the fact people think Chapman is an asshole and want him gone. I will be the first to admit his posts have merit. He describes things accurately but the problem is he is doing it in a complete asshole manner. I love to mock but I don't go attacking people but then again we all have our style and he likes his. He likes that this thread exists. This is what he wants (I love describing him like he is a monster in a cave waiting to strike)

In any event I agree with Horsey, you want to destroy a for sale thread, start a conversation in the misc section and bash away (could provide amazing entertainment) When I sold my 110, it started in the fleamarket and some idiots bashed it nonstop. I moved it to the for sale section and people left it alone. Then again Chapman wasn't on the board then.

------ Follow up post added December 27th, 2011 08:19 AM ------

I am not for deleting anyone's account.
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  #28  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:42 AM
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yeah I agree, threre are moments where you have too many "bad ass wannabe" jerks with a chip on their shoulder giving them selfes the right to insult others, quite often I let it roll off my shoulder.
I have a rule, "I will respect you until there is no time left for respect, I shall allow you to hang you self if that is your desire".
  #29  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbier
Actually Barry, sometimes the Jewish jokes and / or comments regarding Israel bother me

But I have some thick skin and let them go
As a Jew who is pro Israel I think I can make jokes. Sadly I am not also black because then I would have the ultimate pass for jokes.
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  #30  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
I have never met Dan and my only exposure to him has been online here at D-90, but this is the absolute worst thing you can do to this site. His tone and attitude may not be to everyone's taste, but you can't deny the fact that he knows his Rovers and once you filter out the attitude, his posts are actually informative (sometimes just as informative as yours). If you have a hard time filtering out his attitude, just put him on your ignore list - you will never see his posts again. Personally I think I can learn from both you and Dan.

Once you start with the bans, it's a very slippery slope and you quickly end up with an overly sanitized mutual adoration fest like Expedition Portal.

I'm a firm believer of freedom of speech - even if it offends me.

My 2 cents.
Very true...
  #31  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:51 AM
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Well there are some people who fought for the existence of Medinat L'Israel; and provided many Jewish people in the Diaspora the opportunity to have a place called Home that could find those comments offensive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
As a Jew who is pro Israel I think I can make jokes. Sadly I am not also black because then I would have the ultimate pass for jokes.
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  #32  
Old December 27th, 2011, 12:12 PM
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I said pro Israel.

Isn't all humor self deprecation? Next you will tell me I shouldn't make holocaust jokes. I lost plenty of family because of it but as any good comedian will tell you, tragedy plus time equals comedy.

Not to get off topic since this is a moderator thread. Then again I don't think I ever made fun of Israel, did I?
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  #33  
Old December 27th, 2011, 12:12 PM
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I kind of enjoy it when I get banned from a site. It gives me something to do.
  #34  
Old December 27th, 2011, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman
I kind of enjoy it when I get banned from a site. It gives me something to do.
Do you move on to a new site? Do you have a list of banned sites?
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Are there shocks that I can addjust up and down like my friends LX460? That would be very cool!
  #35  
Old December 27th, 2011, 12:26 PM
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No, Dan will reincarnate as a newb.
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  #36  
Old December 27th, 2011, 12:41 PM
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Barry,

I am not telling you what to do, but if you ever walk on Iad Vashem I doubt you will have the stomach to make jokes, but then again, all I said is what bothered me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
I said pro Israel.

Isn't all humor self deprecation? Next you will tell me I shouldn't make holocaust jokes. I lost plenty of family because of it but as any good comedian will tell you, tragedy plus time equals comedy.

Not to get off topic since this is a moderator thread. Then again I don't think I ever made fun of Israel, did I?
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  #37  
Old December 27th, 2011, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
I kind of enjoy it when I get banned from a site. It gives me something to do.
Dan, can you elaborate? Are you saying you want to be banned? Or are you asking for suggestions for things to do with your free time? Or should this be read as some kind of threat?
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  #38  
Old December 27th, 2011, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cgalpin
Dan, can you elaborate? Are you saying you want to be banned? Or are you asking for suggestions for things to do with your free time? Or should this be read as some kind of threat?
You could try and ban me. But come on, really think you can? Think you have time? You have to remember what my wife does for a living. You can block my ip, proxy ip's, email domains, etc... But the only way to keep me out is to close registration. And since a big company owns D-90 now they need to keep registration open to generate traffic to make money. Or, you would personally have to approve each and every person who registrars, and we both know that would get old fast. But you could try.

Not my first rodeo.
  #39  
Old December 27th, 2011, 01:19 PM
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I'm no veteran member here on D-90 but have enough experience with other boards to understand what works and what doesn't. My post really should be two threads as it tackles two things going on, but here are my basic thoughts FWIW:

I noticed that most vintage boards generally attract mutual respect among members. I am still a member of www.e9coupe.com which is a fantastic forum for early 3.0 CSi BMWs. Everyone there had a fantastic knowlege base and even the random asshole who stirred the pot on nearly every thread actually knew his stuff so it was tolerated. Sometimes the threads got ugly and they were immediately locked. Conversely, if your spent more than 5 minutes on www.mye28.com (a site dedicated to more contemporary BMWs) you'd feel like you were at a middle-school playground. Sites can go the other direction as well, like www.benzworld.com where there's lots of love but less than 50% of the comments are remotely factual.

Rovers and 'Wheeling' is a lot like motorcycles (in particular trail riders/MX guys) in that it should be a brotherhood. Shit breaks on the trail and you reach out and people help you. You're building something and hit a road block and people help. You pay it forward if you can.

Now, here's where I think it gets sticky because I feel as though fellow board members should be "brothers" and we should look out for each other. When you see somebody joining (with less than 50 posts) peddling questionable UK trucks for 100% markup off of a well-known UK supplier I think it's well within our right to call somebody a gypsy. Just NOT in the FS thread (as the rules dictate).

I sold my 110 through D-90 recently and had nothing but positive comments and a few legit questions which was nice. I'd have been pretty pissed if somebody cut me down in my FS thread. Make all the comments you want in Misc. Chit-Chat.

I was going to start a thread last night after I read through the latest round of insults on the '87 D-90 FS thread, but held off. Really, I think that sellers (anyone) has the right to peddle anything they want here or anywhere else without being verbally assaulted. However, I don't want to be part of some censored, vanilla community where nobody can speak up and call something an overpriced piece of shit, or make a Hannuka joke (in good taste of course), or god-forbid censor Neil's escapades (even if some of them are suspect).

Believe me, I had a lot to say about GreenMountainRover's D-90 but left the FS thread alone. I wouldn't have said anything until he essentially threatened Chapman's right to free speach and sent him a profane PM.

For the record, I wish GreenMountainRovers all the success in the world, but he needs to listen to what people are saying here (we are his audience and if he wants us as customers and referalls he'll need to listen to what people are saying). Maybe the fact that the thread was so charged is because he posted (basically copied directly from the UK seller's site) the exact same description of a UK fright pig at an optimistic price (double what he paid - I'm guessing) as if to suggest that we board members are a bunch of functionally retarded muppets who are incapable of performing any due diligence. The description and his comments were vague, with undertones of plausible deniablity regarding the past work. Lot of suspect things going on. He mentioned that he saw the truck in person and drove it (I doubt that very much). Guys like this need to be called to the mat once in a while. Be an honest, no B.S. seller and ask whatever you want for a price. I get the sense that he's new at this and still learning this business, so maybe we should cut him some slack. Don't try to scam your brothers, or you WILL get some blowback!

How would we feel if this site became like a Craig's List or an eBay full of optimistically-priced shit for sale? No one would bother reading through FS postings as much (just like I couldn't be bothered to shop on fleabay).

Arguing on the internet is like beating a retarded (sorry, developmentally challenged) child at Scrabble, it is narcisistic and you lose no matter what the outcome. Moderators do need to moderate the tone, but censorship and bans are NOT the way to go. Ban somebody and they'll just sign up on a new account with different device/IP address and completely pollute the forum out of spite (I have seen it happen).
I happen to enjoy this site and don't want to see it go down a slippery slope.

Bottom line is that everyone needs to be gentlemen here. You're driving a British vehicle, so maybe start adopting a 'stiff upper lip' and show some restraint from time to time (especially when it comes to directly insulting or threatening somebody). The world has enough keyboard tuffguys, just like there are too many people who would flip you off from the safety of their car in a millisecond but would NEVER dream of doing that when face-to-face. Try to filter your comments by imagining being able to say something to somebody's face.
  #40  
Old December 27th, 2011, 01:32 PM
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People are always going to disagree with each other. And ego's will always clash. Fact is everyone here should be a moderator and we should all hold each other accountable for our actions. If someone is saying something that bothers you weigh in and calmly express why.

The worst outbursts are fueled by others reactions. And maybe some things that need to be said are not going to be pretty. Try to see the horizon and quit staring at the choppy water.
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