man this is bad timing - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 10:38 AM
koltonstanley's Avatar
koltonstanley
Status: Offline
Kolton Stanley
defender 130 hi cap
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ocean,NJ
Posts: 433
Registry
man this is bad timing

well im not sure where to post this i just thought is reach out and see if anyone had any suggestions........

Post hurricane sandy im over here trying to help people with much bigger problems then me......... Im suppose to be rebuilding a familys roof today that had a large tree fall on it........probably trying to do to much to soon but how do you say no to people who are living with no heat and no power with a hole in there house.

anyway i drove home no problem yesterday......get out of truck for about 3 minutes and go to restart the truck and it wont start....

turns over fine just will not fire.

i try until my battery dies and decide to leave it for about 2 hours.....

came back and jump started it.....turns over for awhile....almost starts but doesnt.....

i leave the jumper cables on for awhile and now there is NOTHING....glow plugs light up........fuel pump comes on all normal but when i turn the key there is nothing....no click....just nothing......

im no mechanic so normally i would call up a local shop and let someone look at it..........but there is NOTHING open.......land rover monmouth is less than a mile from me and they are closed.......

does anyone have any thoughts on what could be wrong?
is there anyone local who knows of a shop with power who will work on a TD5 diesel?
timing on this couldnt be worse......
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 10:54 AM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
This is fuel starvation before the IP. either your fuel filter is so restricted that engine consums more than pump can pull through, or your pump is failing and can't keep pressure. The fact that it would start up after a while has to do with pressure equalization over time (if it sits a while the vaccum created from a higher draw than supply equalizes). Since it's a TD5 I know there's an ECU involved, and not sure how much control the ECU has over fueling, but there's normally at least a limp mode with rover ecu's.

don't suppose you have a spare filter? crack the injectors to see if fuel leaks at injector when it turns over. that will be telling. all diesels need is fuel, air and compression. I'm assuming you don't have an air or compression issue overnight just like that.

any chance somehow your air filter got wet? that would choke it. Do you have a water seperator? drain quite a bit out if you have a bleed valve.

If all else fails, remove the fuel filter, dump it completely out, and let it dry in the sun completely (in case there is water contamination). reinstall prime and hope for the best.

Diesel drivers should always have a spare filter on hand. it's just good practice. (trust me on this-btw, I need to order my replacement).

good luck.

------ Follow up post added November 2nd, 2012 10:57 AM ------

I almost forgot. figure out where your fuel stop solenoid is and check the wire! Also check all wires to all that fancy schmancy crap on the engine. My buddy just had his Jetta TDI lose power and then die on him. After an inspection at the dealer, it ended up being a wire that broke going to a temp sensor on his intake manifold. F' ECU's!
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 11:00 AM
koltonstanley's Avatar
koltonstanley
Status: Offline
Kolton Stanley
defender 130 hi cap
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ocean,NJ
Posts: 433
Registry
hey i appreciate that and will do all those things....sounds very plausible.......my only issue is the truck wont turn over now......even with jumper cables attached it wont do anything......so even if i fix the original problem could i have done something else?

is there anything i can look at now?

before it was turning over and just not starting....

NOW there is no turning over, no clicking, when i turn the key there is no noise....NOTHING
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 11:05 AM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,250
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
crack the injectors to see if fuel leaks at injector when it turns over. that will be telling.

any chance somehow your air filter got wet? that would choke it. Do you have a water seperator? drain quite a bit out if you have a bleed valve.

figure out where your fuel stop solenoid is and check the wire!!
None of this is applicable to a common rail engine......
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 11:05 AM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
if the battery was completely worn down, it could take 10-15 minutes of charging just to get it do click. do you have a multimeter to check state of charge? do you get any voltage reading at all from dash gauge when you turn ignition to position 2?

I'm thinking in Jersey there has to be a 100 abandoned cars laying around with batteries you could "borrow". turning over (starting seperate issue) is as simple as ignition switch charging the starter solenoid to close direct circuit between battery and starter to turn over. not even clicking means that the battery is just dead, the battery connection is loose/corroded, or the wire between ignition and solenoid has been interrupted.

------ Follow up post added November 2nd, 2012 11:06 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
None of this is applicable to a common rail engine......

I have no experience with common rail or TD5, so if you have some value add, go ahead and give it up.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 11:11 AM
koltonstanley's Avatar
koltonstanley
Status: Offline
Kolton Stanley
defender 130 hi cap
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ocean,NJ
Posts: 433
Registry
i appreciate the help very much..........

and yes the dash all lights up like normal. everything seems like it has juice....

when i turn to position 2 the glow plugs warm up and shut off like normal......you can also here the fuel pump? or oil pump? im not sure turn on and turn off like normal.......

then i turn to start and there is no noise at all...no click.......

could i have BROKE something trying to jump start it? or turning it over too much.......could i overheat and fry something?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 11:15 AM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
i seriously doubt it. I think you only have enough voltage to run electronic dash (like 11ish volts) but not enough to actually move the starter solenoid to close the circuit and turn the starter. you need a jump.` I guess the TD5 doesn't have a volt gauge?

------ Follow up post added November 2nd, 2012 11:17 AM ------

If I were you, I would be looking for loose connections right now on the engine, and checking all fuses (main panel under bonnet and the under dash), before attempting any more starts. solve the running problem before working on the starting problem.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 11:22 AM
koltonstanley's Avatar
koltonstanley
Status: Offline
Kolton Stanley
defender 130 hi cap
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ocean,NJ
Posts: 433
Registry
ok thanks for the help......does turn out that i have a new fuel filter i havent installed yet......ive never done it before so this will be my first time.....

i will check all wires, fuses, change the fuel filter, prime, charge up battery and see if i can get the thing to start......
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 11:24 AM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
do all those things, and I can't imagine what would keep it from starting and running, unless there's a dead cat that crawled into your intake during the night.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 11:37 AM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,250
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
I have no experience with common rail or TD5, so if you have some value add, go ahead and give it up.
Make sure you have fuel after the fuel filter. Easy to check with bleed port or cracking a line. Then hook up a computer. That is it....
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 11:57 AM
koltonstanley's Avatar
koltonstanley
Status: Offline
Kolton Stanley
defender 130 hi cap
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ocean,NJ
Posts: 433
Registry
do you happen to have a computer that will read my TD5 ecu?

does anyone have a computer that will read my ecu?

Id love to turn off this stinkin engine immobilizer while im at it.......
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:04 PM
tjfslaughter's Avatar
tjfslaughter
Status: Offline
thomas
Burbon
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NorthEast
Posts: 4,563
Pm sent. It's probably the immobilizer. Change the battery in it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:07 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
If you change the filter, here is a quote from someone that posted the TD5 fuel line purging procedure:

"ust to be sure, the official procedure (or at least the one I know of !) for purging the air is...

Turn the ignition off for at least 15 seconds as this makes sure the ECU resets.
Turn the ignition key to position 2 and wait 3 minutes (this purges any air from the fuel rail)
Push the throttle to the floor and crank the engine keeping the throttle wide open (it needs to be more than 90% throttle or the purging ceases) and you need to crank continuously as stopping cranking will also stop the purging.
Max cranking time is 30 seconds, if it doesn't start after 30 seconds you have to repeat.

If you do have air in the system it will be between the regulator and the injectors and the above steps will "tell" the ECU that it needs to open the injectors for a longer period than normal so the air has a chance to bleed through. Because of that though, using it when there isn't air in the system can flood the cylinder with too much fuel making it difficult to start. "

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=71822
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:10 PM
tjfslaughter's Avatar
tjfslaughter
Status: Offline
thomas
Burbon
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NorthEast
Posts: 4,563
Mark. The pedal sequence takes about 10 times to fully purge the air out after changing filter....
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:13 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Damn! I"m going to go hug my 2.8. BRB.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:39 PM
tjfslaughter's Avatar
tjfslaughter
Status: Offline
thomas
Burbon
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NorthEast
Posts: 4,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
Damn! I"m going to go hug my 2.8. BRB.
It only takes about 5 min....
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:42 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
OK, it was a hug and some white castles from the freezer. now I feel all fuzzy and warm inside.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 02:03 PM
Oxcart13's Avatar
Oxcart13
Status: Offline
Mark M
D110
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 393
Yeah, sounds like the immobilizer. Can you post what lights you see on the dash when trying to start? What does the red light in the speedo do? And the engine light? Mark
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 02:04 PM
winn442's Avatar
winn442
Status: Offline
Winn Bearden
........
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Americus, GA
Posts: 255
Registry
There are two relays (more if you have factory A/C or ABS/ETC) under the seat where the ECU resides, to the inside of the fuse box, can't remember which one, but I had the same symptoms, had just a slight bit of corrosion on one the the relay blades, plugged it in and out several times to get a good connection, fired right up.....
__________________
Winn Bearden
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 04:39 PM
koltonstanley's Avatar
koltonstanley
Status: Offline
Kolton Stanley
defender 130 hi cap
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ocean,NJ
Posts: 433
Registry
im at work now so i will work on all this tomarow and see how it goes......

the little red light is on like normal when i get in and the immobilizer light (the engine with the lightning bolt on it) doesnt light up....like normal...

my key fob is brand new....everything on the dash seems normal like it always does.......

when i turn the key to position 2 everything seems normal...i hear the fuel pump whine for like 2 seconds like normal.......i go and turn to position 3 and there is no noise.....not even a starter click.....

the battery looks clean, no corrosion.......i will look under the passenger seat where the relays are but last time i looked it was clean enough to eat off........

of course having no phones, no internet and no electric @ home is not making this any easier....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Symptoms of a bad axle CV joint? Hans Defender Technical Discussions 16 April 6th, 2007 01:20 PM
Need Help For Bad Handling...(I mean BAD!) Cube II Defender Technical Discussions 18 July 7th, 2006 09:07 AM
Cams, lifters, timing chains vesparover For Sale - Parts 11 March 10th, 2006 11:20 PM
Timing and Overheating mkerr2112 Defender Technical Discussions 10 July 6th, 2005 09:31 AM
bad bad BAD noise rover4x4 Defender Technical Discussions 11 December 12th, 2003 12:44 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20 AM.


Copyright