lt77/r380 comparison - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 14th, 2009, 12:56 AM
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lt77/r380 comparison

Can anybody who has driven both of these with a D-90 give me a good down to earth comparison. I am going to replace a 2.25 with a 200 tdi and kinda dig the old lt77 that's in it now. Curious just for opinions of people that have driven both.
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  #2  
Old August 14th, 2009, 02:56 AM
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R380 is a better gearchange, but neither of them are really "car" like.

after driving an R380, when you jump back into an LT77 you think "crikey, this is stiff"


R380 is easier for shifting between 1st and reverse (if you're trying to rock yourself out of a hole) and the latest Td5 spec R380's (suffix L i think) have teflon coated wider bearings which are supposed to be purrdy strong and good at handling power.
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  #3  
Old August 14th, 2009, 03:44 AM
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They both suck. R380 sucks less, but not by a huge amount. Wear on #2 synchro is the biggest thing with both and both are better with MTL. This being said, I don't find either offensive to drive as long as you are willing to take your time with shifts. I wait until revs fall to just before the exact level of the next shift before pulling the stick out of gear and then gently put it into the next gear at a rev match. It takes a long time to get between gears like this because the rover flywheel is heavy and it takes forever for the revs to drop, but the trans will last forever if you do.
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  #4  
Old August 14th, 2009, 08:49 AM
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Well so far I've had to replace 1 R380 and the syncro from 1-2 is shot only had the replace the original lt77 after wheeling with it for a few years. That trans had something like 100k on it. The 380s lasted about a year of mostly highway driving.
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  #5  
Old August 14th, 2009, 08:59 AM
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Keep in mind that most R380's are longer than your LT77, unless you can find a short R380 but they are hard to come by.

Ashcroft Transmission has a posting on their page that they are going to start making short R380's but there is no ETA posted.
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  #6  
Old August 14th, 2009, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flippedrover
Well so far I've had to replace 1 R380 and the syncro from 1-2 is shot only had the replace the original lt77 after wheeling with it for a few years. That trans had something like 100k on it. The 380s lasted about a year of mostly highway driving.
You are driving it wrong. Shift slower.
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  #7  
Old August 15th, 2009, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas
Keep in mind that most R380's are longer than your LT77, unless you can find a short R380 but they are hard to come by.

Ashcroft Transmission has a posting on their page that they are going to start making short R380's but there is no ETA posted.
Yeah. They had some short ones for specials a while ago. Then I saw that and that's what has me thinking about it.
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  #8  
Old August 15th, 2009, 05:44 PM
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The gearbox itself is the same length... it's the bellhousing that's shorter (known as the "stumpy" bellhousing)

I've got the part number here somewhere, but apparently rare as rocking horse poo.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 08:29 PM
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Short bell housing would also require a short input shaft correct?
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  #10  
Old August 16th, 2009, 11:12 AM
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If shifted properly, the synchros should never wear. I've driven very high mileage boxes that shift as good as new....... You need to let the synchros do their job.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 11:49 AM
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One thing that should be mentioned is that not all LT77 and R380 boxes are the same. Both have undergone changes through the years. An early LT77 is a completely different beast with regards to strength and synchro performance to a later one. You need to check the suffixes first.
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  #12  
Old August 17th, 2009, 11:19 PM
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Would you say an early one is better or worse?
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  #13  
Old August 17th, 2009, 11:46 PM
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Early is worse.
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  #14  
Old August 18th, 2009, 08:45 AM
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Matt,
We put a 200tdi in my brothers blue 83 110 pickup. The one that was a 2.5 petrol @ MAR last fall. The tranny had about 65k on it and was fine. That coupled with the disco 1.2 tcase that he bought off of Randy @ the ROVERS campsite is a nearly perfect final ratio. The early lt77's had a slightly lower 5th gear. With 33's he's geared perfect on the highway. I have a 92 lt77s. I can feel no dfference's but both trannys have been taken care of and are filled with redline mtl.
FWIW I prefer the lt77s to the r380. I have had a bunch of both and thats my preference. I have driven a bunch of r380's with the 2nd gear synchro so bad I was double clutching. Hope you found some place bigger to work on the truck than that little garage you posted a picture of.
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  #15  
Old August 18th, 2009, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
You are driving it wrong. Shift slower.
Um ok and how does one "shift slower" then?
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  #16  
Old August 18th, 2009, 09:26 AM
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How do you define double clutching?
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  #17  
Old August 18th, 2009, 10:38 AM
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Doug,

Thanks for the info. Mine is an early one. to Ron's comment, it's not that great really. I like it. For whatever that's worth it's not really suited for the highway at all and probably won't even be after the 200 tdi but that's why I commute with a volvo wagon. The garage isn't so bad if you're just in the engine(from the front) but I've got access to large lift stalls and everything on base. I like the Lt77 and I like where reverse is on the shifter but the masses sing praises for the R380, wanted some opinions of users.
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  #18  
Old August 18th, 2009, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover26c
How do you define double clutching?
I'm assuming he means the old fashioned way. Shift to put it into neutral. Give it a second. shift again to go to the next gear.

Ahhh, the fun of non-syncro transmissions.

-Hans
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Old August 18th, 2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flippedrover
Um ok and how does one "shift slower" then?
You need to let the syncros synchronize.... You put slight pressure as the synchros touch and then let it fall into gear. If you force it, the oil film collapses and the synchros touch, causing wear. Have an MTF helps a lot as the friction modifiers make it happen faster.

Follow-up Post:

Earlier LT77 boxes (pre' suffix G) will fail behind a TDI eventually....

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_1.html#pa1
Quote:
The LT 77 was introduced to the Landrover range in approx 1983 with the suffix D box and was developed over the years to the suffix H which was last used in 1994. The D and E are very similar the only difference being the reverse gear was a little fatter in the E, When they went from E to F larger layshaft bearings were used. The G was further improved by all the gear teeth including the pinion getting approx 20% thicker. Also a much wider pump was used to increase the lubrication and cope with the fact that some of the LT 77"s were now being supplied oil cooled, ie V8 NAS 90, 3.9 RR Classic and the 3.5 EFI Discos. The H (termed the LT 77S) was the same as the G in terms of strength but used a different syncro set up called the "Double Syncro", In reality it didn"t work much better.
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  #20  
Old August 18th, 2009, 04:28 PM
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oil cooled V8 NAS 90? That's new to me.
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