LR3 drivability issue - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 12:13 PM
Roverlab
Status: Offline
Trevor Griffiths
85 110, 92 110, 92 RR, 06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Elizabethotwn, PA
Posts: 1,647
LR3 drivability issue

I wanted to throw this out there to get some out of the box thinking; this one has stumped me and I think I maybe holding on to tight:

06 LR3 V8 with about 80k miles. Chronic P0171 and P0174 faults, low fuel economy.
Tried the easy obvious stuff like PCV valve, software update, and MAFS with no gains.
Also ran a course of BG products through the tank and intake.
Replaced intake gaskets and o-rings, upper and lower, sent the injectors out for an ultra sonic cleaning and "dyno" testing before and after ( never received the dyno report and overall wasn't impressed with that service).
Short term mix can move upwards of +30.
O2 sensor activity also within range.
Intake hose intact.
Performed a smoke test and didn't have any issues.
No EGR faults.
Spark plug gaps barely worn, but are the original plugs

Customer also states that stalling symptoms most often occur below an 1/8th tank. Haven't had the fuel pressure gauge on during that event, but normally the pressure readings are within spec, and the P-codes will come on at anytime, full or not.

Engine runs strong, smoothly; only was able to get 13mpg avg over the last 800 mile run. Not far off what my own 06 LR3 does (14.4 over 750 miles recently) but the owner is convinced it has been better.

Accepting any ideas!

Trevor
__________________
Roverlab is now British 4x4 Specialists.
Email is
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Same place, new dogs.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 12:39 PM
Rocky's Avatar
Rocky
Status: Online
Chris
72 + D1 drivetrain
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colonies Aka Boston
Posts: 8,771
Can you swap ECM between the two vehicles without creating problems elsewhere?
If the fault codes follow the ECM that would suggest its faulty.
__________________
A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 01:39 PM
JohnsD90's Avatar
JohnsD90
Status: Offline
John
74 SIII 88", 88 110, 91 110
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 2,282
Registry
I would do the plugs, wires, fuel filter (if LR started using them again) and a fuel pump, at 80k miles i wouldnt be surprised if you needed a fuel pump, and spark plugs are generally a 30-50k mile part, but im sure you know all of this...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 02:10 PM
Jymmiejamz's Avatar
Jymmiejamz
Status: Offline
Jimmy
1995 D90 SW #365
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,468
Registry
P0171/4 are a constant problem for us at the dealership. So many different things can cause this, and no one thing will fix it. I would start with a mass air flow meter because its the cheapest thing, and it has fixed a few for us, but it won't throw MAFS specific faults. Another thing that can cause issues is the oil filler cap. If you can swap those from another car, that is the best thing to do to verify it by looking at the long term fuel trim.
__________________
Car Camping Collective founding member and Treasurer
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 02:14 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
If it was a jag, it would be the throttle position sensor on the throttle body.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 05:04 PM
navydevildoc's Avatar
navydevildoc
Status: Offline
Neill Thornton
1984 D90 300 Tdi / 1965 Series IIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,586
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Can you swap ECM between the two vehicles without creating problems elsewhere?
If the fault codes follow the ECM that would suggest its faulty.
You most certainly can NOT swap ECUs between trucks unless you have a way of completely re-programming the unit. Not only are the CCFs different, but the VIN is baked in to many parts of the 30 some odd ECUs on the LR3. If they don't agree, nothing happens when you turn the key.
__________________
"It doesn't swoop, curve, or look like it's going fast when it's parked. It never looks like it's going fast. It doesn't go fast." - Richard Hammond, BBC Top Gear


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 06:44 PM
Rocky's Avatar
Rocky
Status: Online
Chris
72 + D1 drivetrain
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colonies Aka Boston
Posts: 8,771
I had my doubts which is why I threw the caveat in
__________________
A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 08:25 PM
DMSLongLake's Avatar
DMSLongLake
Status: Offline
Dave Sherwood
1994 D90 ST
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Long Lake, MN USA
Posts: 685
Registry
+1 for the TPS...was the cause for mine....had some sort of carbon buildup or something...
__________________
DMSLongLake

Current Rovers:
1994 D-90 ST #734
2006 LR3
2016 RRS

Past Rovers:
1997 Disco I
1988 Range Rover 40th Anniversary
1999 Disco II
1995 D-90 ST #2731
1997 Range Rover 4.6 HSE Vitesse
2003 Range Rover HSE
2008 RRS
2013 RRS
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 08:33 PM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Offline
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,741
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMSLongLake View Post
+1 for the TPS...was the cause for mine....had some sort of carbon buildup or something...
Where is the TPS on an LR3?
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 08:53 PM
Jymmiejamz's Avatar
Jymmiejamz
Status: Offline
Jimmy
1995 D90 SW #365
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,468
Registry
In my experience a dirty throttle body will set a P0101 Mass air flow sensor fault. I have been told by Land Rover tech line that it is not possible for a mass air flow sensor to cause this fault. I can't recall ever replacing a throttle body in an LR3, but I've cleaned hundreds of them.

The throttle position sensor would be integral to the throttle body since it is drive by wire and not a throttle cobble.
__________________
Car Camping Collective founding member and Treasurer
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 10:06 PM
navydevildoc's Avatar
navydevildoc
Status: Offline
Neill Thornton
1984 D90 300 Tdi / 1965 Series IIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,586
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Where is the TPS on an LR3?
It's on the pedal down by your feet. The LR3 is drive by wire.
__________________
"It doesn't swoop, curve, or look like it's going fast when it's parked. It never looks like it's going fast. It doesn't go fast." - Richard Hammond, BBC Top Gear


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 10:21 PM
Jymmiejamz's Avatar
Jymmiejamz
Status: Offline
Jimmy
1995 D90 SW #365
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,468
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
It's on the pedal down by your feet. The LR3 is drive by wire.
That would be the accelerator pedal position sensor, not the throttle position sensor. The throttle position sensor tells the PCM the position of the throttle plate. It is integral to the throttle body and not serviceable separately.
__________________
Car Camping Collective founding member and Treasurer
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old March 23rd, 2014, 10:30 PM
navydevildoc's Avatar
navydevildoc
Status: Offline
Neill Thornton
1984 D90 300 Tdi / 1965 Series IIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,586
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
That would be the accelerator pedal position sensor, not the throttle position sensor. The throttle position sensor tells the PCM the position of the throttle plate. It is integral to the throttle body and not serviceable separately.
Ahhh... yeah you are right....
__________________
"It doesn't swoop, curve, or look like it's going fast when it's parked. It never looks like it's going fast. It doesn't go fast." - Richard Hammond, BBC Top Gear


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old March 24th, 2014, 09:37 AM
Roverlab
Status: Offline
Trevor Griffiths
85 110, 92 110, 92 RR, 06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Elizabethotwn, PA
Posts: 1,647
I am most intrigued by Jimmy calling it a "throttle cobble".
Ok, a cap is easy enough.
I've been trying to focus my diagnosis on things that would be common to both sides of the engine as both faults are the same for each side of the engine and long term/ short term values are nearly identical. So, a large vacuum leak or air flow monitoring such as PCV, filler cap, intake hose, EGR, MAFS make logical sense. Unfortunately, other than replacing the EGR- which I would think would set a fault if the pintle were carbon-ed up and sticking open and replacing the oil filler cap, the other items haven't had an effect.
About to fit the cap from my perfectly awesome running LR3 and go for a drive- have run out of coffee, so why not.
Thanks for all the responses and I'll update later today.
__________________
Roverlab is now British 4x4 Specialists.
Email is
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Same place, new dogs.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old March 24th, 2014, 05:54 PM
Roverlab
Status: Offline
Trevor Griffiths
85 110, 92 110, 92 RR, 06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Elizabethotwn, PA
Posts: 1,647
I see by another thread that I may have inadvertently nudged the bee-hive. I was only looking for some outside opinions on this particular issue and didn't mean to stir up an anti-LR3 thread/section sentiment.

I understand this is the Defender sand box and I'll happily take my shovel elsewhere.

FWIW I think I'm onto the solution for this LR3; somebody let me know if it's ok to post the results, and then I'll be gone.
__________________
Roverlab is now British 4x4 Specialists.
Email is
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Same place, new dogs.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old March 24th, 2014, 06:04 PM
down_shift's Avatar
down_shift
Status: Offline
Russell
94' D90 ST & 06' LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,118
Registry
I'd be very interesting in hearing the results. It is post like yours that keeps us coming back. Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old March 24th, 2014, 06:59 PM
Grover's Avatar
Grover
Status: Online
Mike
Birmabright Bread Box/Swagger Wagon
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,856
Registry
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverlab View Post
I see by another thread that I may have inadvertently nudged the bee-hive. I was only looking for some outside opinions on this particular issue and didn't mean to stir up an anti-LR3 thread/section sentiment.

I understand this is the Defender sand box and I'll happily take my shovel elsewhere.

FWIW I think I'm onto the solution for this LR3; somebody let me know if it's ok to post the results, and then I'll be gone.
Keep us posted. Several of us, diehard Defender owners, own D3's...

Cheers...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old March 24th, 2014, 07:03 PM
The Dro
Status: Offline
Dro
1988 Ninety
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 6,690
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverlab View Post
I see by another thread that I may have inadvertently nudged the bee-hive. I was only looking for some outside opinions on this particular issue and didn't mean to stir up an anti-LR3 thread/section sentiment.

I understand this is the Defender sand box and I'll happily take my shovel elsewhere.

FWIW I think I'm onto the solution for this LR3; somebody let me know if it's ok to post the results, and then I'll be gone.
We all blame Russell for that cluster #&@$€

Please let us know about your findings.
__________________
Mine is NTO... It was new, Now I'm Taking it Off.
Quote:
Online speculation will not replace onsite inspection.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old March 24th, 2014, 07:10 PM
Jymmiejamz's Avatar
Jymmiejamz
Status: Offline
Jimmy
1995 D90 SW #365
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,468
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverlab View Post
I see by another thread that I may have inadvertently nudged the bee-hive. I was only looking for some outside opinions on this particular issue and didn't mean to stir up an anti-LR3 thread/section sentiment.

I understand this is the Defender sand box and I'll happily take my shovel elsewhere.

FWIW I think I'm onto the solution for this LR3; somebody let me know if it's ok to post the results, and then I'll be gone.
There is an LR3 thread every week...

Please share the fix, or at least PM me with what fixed it. As I said before, we have these codes constantly, and there isn't a definitive fix.
__________________
Car Camping Collective founding member and Treasurer
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old March 27th, 2014, 06:59 PM
Roverlab
Status: Offline
Trevor Griffiths
85 110, 92 110, 92 RR, 06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Elizabethotwn, PA
Posts: 1,647
Fuel pump. On a test drive with a pressure gauge on the windscreen, I saw erratic readings, with pressure lowering under load, some times dipping into the 20's.
Replaced the pump and regulator- comes as one piece- and found that the access panel in the tank requires it's own special clamp and seal. The clamp looks like a typical hose clamp but has 2 collapsible segments and a shear bolt on the clamp drive so that it can't be overtightened.
P/N LR006778, around $50.
The pump is considerably more!
Now have long term fuel trim below 1% at 70 mph cruise and most noticeable to the customer will be fuel economy numbers back into the upper teens instead of single digits. Going to fill the tank and drive some more, but it's nice to resolve this one after months of ineffective tries.

Thanks all for the ideas and support!
__________________
Roverlab is now British 4x4 Specialists.
Email is
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Same place, new dogs.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Tags
lr3

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuel Pump Issue bjenk Defender Technical Discussions 12 December 5th, 2004 09:00 PM
Article from the September 2004 Issue of LRE norros Misc. Chit-Chat 8 September 16th, 2004 02:13 PM
Fun new problem: starter circuit issue jaherring Defender Technical Discussions 1 September 12th, 2004 03:07 AM
overheating issue--viscous fan Davis Defender Technical Discussions 5 August 4th, 2004 12:11 PM
Private Messaging "Read Reciept" issue? chrisvonc Support & Suggestions 0 May 23rd, 2004 08:51 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:16 PM.


Copyright