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  #21  
Old July 12th, 2013, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Here's another scenario...
Say you own a piece of land. This is in an area that is used by hunters and ATVers. One day one or two of them come onto your property and drive into a big hole you dug with your backhoe and one dies and the other ends up with a TBI. Your No Tresspassing signs and chain across the road were ignored, they just drove right on in anyway. They sue you for having an unmarked hazard on your land and they win to the tune of 4 million dollars.
So what is to keep your friend from doing the exact same thing tomorrow and actually breaking his neck? Not one damn thing. Plus, he can collect!
I sure hope they never see a dime.

You cannot fix stupid.

Oh! BTW Did that idiot win the Darwin Award?
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  #22  
Old July 12th, 2013, 10:46 PM
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What there's a off road course at the Hanover dealership!? Ya! I'm all over it!
.....what?...I can't get access to it in any way?
.....only new Rover buyers at that dealership in a demonstration?
.....wait hang on,....they take the new Rovers off road?
.....its all kinda funny, isn't it?

The new Land Rover has an identity crisis, that's why there having trouble with the "new" Defender.
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  #23  
Old July 13th, 2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cjbenway View Post
What there's a off road course at the Hanover dealership!? Ya! I'm all over it!
.....what?...I can't get access to it in any way?
.....only new Rover buyers at that dealership in a demonstration?
.....wait hang on,....they take the new Rovers off road?
.....its all kinda funny, isn't it?

The new Land Rover has an identity crisis, that's why there having trouble with the "new" Defender.
Exit #13 (Hanover/Norwell)

They don't have a sense of humor at all. I saw the owner's ROW 110 in the parking lot when I was driving by in my Cayenne and when I swung around to pull in the parking lot, 3-4 techs were pushing an LR4 across the parking lot into a service bay. When I jokingly said "that looks about right"..."any of you guys need a nudge from a German-built vehicle", they all grumbled and kept pushing. Then I go inside to ask who owned the 110 and the Service Manager could not have been more dismissive.
Not saying that they are dicks, but they are clearly NOT 'car guys' in the sense that they share enthusiasm for all things mechanical.

I do think Land Rover is in the midst of an identity change though. They built their reputation and "brand" on being a rugged, go-anywhere vehicle in much the same way Porchse or Ferarri goes racing to prove itself. Nowadays, Land Rover builds a off-camber rockwall and a mud hole to show new prospective Rangie owner's what they COULD do, but never will. THen when a truck shows up that really showcases the brand's heritage, they could care less. It's all about moving another 'unit'. THey need to have a very simple, rugged Defender-like truck in their lineup before Toyota becomes synonomous with rugged/durable go-anywhere vehicles (the next generation will identify with a Yota Hilux as a 'safari-mobile'.
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  #24  
Old July 13th, 2013, 02:05 PM
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LR announced several years back (under Tata ownership) that they intended to seperate the land rover and range rover branding and take RR and build the brand into a super high end lux brand. Think rolls, Bentley, maybach. If you look back, every year the price of the new RR goes up dramatically. They are increasing HP every year or two because that is more important to the super rich than LR's "heritage".
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  #25  
Old July 13th, 2013, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Exit #13 (Hanover/Norwell)

They don't have a sense of humor at all. I saw the owner's ROW 110 in the parking lot when I was driving by in my Cayenne and when I swung around to pull in the parking lot, 3-4 techs were pushing an LR4 across the parking lot into a service bay. When I jokingly said "that looks about right"..."any of you guys need a nudge from a German-built vehicle", they all grumbled and kept pushing. Then I go inside to ask who owned the 110 and the Service Manager could not have been more dismissive.
Not saying that they are dicks, but they are clearly NOT 'car guys' in the sense that they share enthusiasm for all things mechanical.

I do think Land Rover is in the midst of an identity change though. They built their reputation and "brand" on being a rugged, go-anywhere vehicle in much the same way Porchse or Ferarri goes racing to prove itself. Nowadays, Land Rover builds a off-camber rockwall and a mud hole to show new prospective Rangie owner's what they COULD do, but never will. THen when a truck shows up that really showcases the brand's heritage, they could care less. It's all about moving another 'unit'. THey need to have a very simple, rugged Defender-like truck in their lineup before Toyota becomes synonomous with rugged/durable go-anywhere vehicles (the next generation will identify with a Yota Hilux as a 'safari-mobile'.
Don't get me wrong, I don't take it personally, but be careful making these wild generalizations. Not all dealers are that way. For instance, we have a number of enthusiasts here at ours, and even the guys that aren't "enthusiasts" have a sense of humor and try to make everyone feel welcome all the time.

Actually, when a Defender or Series, or modded Rover of any type pulls in, I would say that the majority of our personnel head out to check it out and meet the owner. I'm sure there are some dealerships that fail to give you the warm and fuzzies when you pull in, but there are still a number of us that care and appreciate the entire heritage of the company and all the owners.
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  #26  
Old July 13th, 2013, 05:01 PM
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Well, the stuck up attitude may be a north-east thing.
One thing I can say for sure here in the north-east is that I get waves from jeep owners and not a one so far from a new land rover owner. The new land rover owners probably think I'm driving a jeep. I guess I have more in common with the jeep owners.
Land Rover talks about heritage a lot, I'm just not sure they want to keep the rugged off road utilitarian part of it.
I'm thinking the attitude may be different in the UK?
I mean its their "Jeep" right?
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  #27  
Old July 13th, 2013, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Exit #13 (Hanover/Norwell)

They don't have a sense of humor at all. I saw the owner's ROW 110 in the parking lot when I was driving by in my Cayenne and when I swung around to pull in the parking lot, 3-4 techs were pushing an LR4 across the parking lot into a service bay. When I jokingly said "that looks about right"..."any of you guys need a nudge from a German-built vehicle", they all grumbled and kept pushing. Then I go inside to ask who owned the 110 and the Service Manager could not have been more dismissive.
Not saying that they are dicks, but they are clearly NOT 'car guys' in the sense that they share enthusiasm for all things mechanical.

I do think Land Rover is in the midst of an identity change though. They built their reputation and "brand" on being a rugged, go-anywhere vehicle in much the same way Porchse or Ferarri goes racing to prove itself. Nowadays, Land Rover builds a off-camber rockwall and a mud hole to show new prospective Rangie owner's what they COULD do, but never will. THen when a truck shows up that really showcases the brand's heritage, they could care less. It's all about moving another 'unit'. THey need to have a very simple, rugged Defender-like truck in their lineup before Toyota becomes synonomous with rugged/durable go-anywhere vehicles (the next generation will identify with a Yota Hilux as a 'safari-mobile'.
You drive a Cayenne and bitch about Land Rover losing it's brand indentity? you were being ironic right? the Cayenne was only built so Porsche could cash in on the SUV craze. Talk about a sell out, it's almost as bad as Jeep making a 2wd Wrangler.
I'm sure the LR employees at this dealership are car guys just not interested in talking to some guy in a Cayenne asking if they need some German built help. They were a bit busy. Land Rover has been using the test track to showcase stability and 4wd capability since 1994, it's not new. I'm also sure they like the Defender models but get tired of hearing from know it all "LR enthusiasts" that run down the models they can sell and pine away for the Defender of old. The Toyota Hilux is also not sold here and is a favorite of terrorists not safari travellers.
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  #28  
Old July 13th, 2013, 05:57 PM
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Toyota already has the reputation as the "go anywhere" brand in the Land Cruiser.
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  #29  
Old July 13th, 2013, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Exit #13 (Hanover/Norwell)

They don't have a sense of humor at all. I saw the owner's ROW 110 in the parking lot when I was driving by in my Cayenne and when I swung around to pull in the parking lot, 3-4 techs were pushing an LR4 across the parking lot into a service bay. When I jokingly said "that looks about right"..."any of you guys need a nudge from a German-built vehicle", they all grumbled and kept pushing. Then I go inside to ask who owned the 110 and the Service Manager could not have been more dismissive.
Not saying that they are dicks, but they are clearly NOT 'car guys' in the sense that they share enthusiasm for all things mechanical.

I do think Land Rover is in the midst of an identity change though. They built their reputation and "brand" on being a rugged, go-anywhere vehicle in much the same way Porchse or Ferarri goes racing to prove itself. Nowadays, Land Rover builds a off-camber rockwall and a mud hole to show new prospective Rangie owner's what they COULD do, but never will. THen when a truck shows up that really showcases the brand's heritage, they could care less. It's all about moving another 'unit'. THey need to have a very simple, rugged Defender-like truck in their lineup before Toyota becomes synonomous with rugged/durable go-anywhere vehicles (the next generation will identify with a Yota Hilux as a 'safari-mobile'.
Drove through an LR dealership in a Cayenne, made a dumb comment to a couple tech guys pushing an LR4 and then expected everyone to roll out the red carpet for you - to take time out of their day to talk shop about a 110? And to top it off you come on a public forum of enthusiasts and then pontificate about how the brand is going through an identity change. I have to wonder if this thread would have ever been started if those 3 to 4 techs actually laughed at your "joke."

And why are so many people unnecessarily adversarial when it comes to their experiences at LR dealerships? It's almost as if they are spoiling for a fight even before they set foot on the property. If you expect to have any more attention given to you simply because you did a lap around the back with your heritage vehicle and are then disappointed when no one drops to their knees, isn't that your problem? I find it amusing that so many people are personally offended at what Land Rover has "become."

I love my car. I love every little shitty thing about it. But I understand that McGovern and others are running a multi billion dollar corporation and it's a business first and foremost. McGovern said it well when he said that LR wants to recognize their heritage but not be held back by it. Rest assured that Land Rover knows exactly where they are taking their brand, the identity crisis is in the minds of those unwilling to accept that change. I think it's a dangerously broad statement to make that when someone shows up at a dealership with a heritage vehicle, "[the dealer]" could "care less." When I show up, I'm not a dick and the techs come out and we talk shop; talk about heritage. That has been true at Land Rover Denver South, East, Flatirons, Roaring Fork, Mt. Kisco, Darien and a whole host of others I've been to in the 30 years I've been sitting in these things.

Let the brand develop and change because if McGovern and others tried to put todays consumer in anything close to the 90 I drive, Land Rover would have been gone a long time ago.
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  #30  
Old July 13th, 2013, 09:38 PM
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  #31  
Old July 13th, 2013, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jruti View Post
Drove through an LR dealership in a Cayenne, made a dumb comment to a couple tech guys pushing an LR4 and then expected everyone to roll out the red carpet for you - to take time out of their day to talk shop about a 110? And to top it off you come on a public forum of enthusiasts and then pontificate about how the brand is going through an identity change. I have to wonder if this thread would have ever been started if those 3 to 4 techs actually laughed at your "joke."

And why are so many people unnecessarily adversarial when it comes to their experiences at LR dealerships? It's almost as if they are spoiling for a fight even before they set foot on the property. If you expect to have any more attention given to you simply because you did a lap around the back with your heritage vehicle and are then disappointed when no one drops to their knees, isn't that your problem? I find it amusing that so many people are personally offended at what Land Rover has "become."

I love my car. I love every little shitty thing about it. But I understand that McGovern and others are running a multi billion dollar corporation and it's a business first and foremost. McGovern said it well when he said that LR wants to recognize their heritage but not be held back by it. Rest assured that Land Rover knows exactly where they are taking their brand, the identity crisis is in the minds of those unwilling to accept that change. I think it's a dangerously broad statement to make that when someone shows up at a dealership with a heritage vehicle, "[the dealer]" could "care less." When I show up, I'm not a dick and the techs come out and we talk shop; talk about heritage. That has been true at Land Rover Denver South, East, Flatirons, Roaring Fork, Mt. Kisco, Darien and a whole host of others I've been to in the 30 years I've been sitting in these things.

Let the brand develop and change because if McGovern and others tried to put todays consumer in anything close to the 90 I drive, Land Rover would have been gone a long time ago.
Very well said.

On a side note, in my experience, working at Land Rover dealership for six years, enthusiasts rarely spend any money at the dealership. Its definitely different for the Defender crowd, since a lot of you guys have LR4's and newer RR's, but most enthusiasts buy used Rovers, and (try) to fix them at home. I do always enjoy when enthusiasts bring their vehicles in for some kind of diagnostics and they have 20 pages of forum posts from Disco Mike
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  #32  
Old July 14th, 2013, 06:27 AM
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Toyota already has the reputation as the "go anywhere" brand in the Land Cruiser.
But it only got it thanks to the Prius mpg ratings. So it could go anywhere!
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  #33  
Old July 14th, 2013, 06:49 AM
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Toyota already has the reputation as the "go anywhere" brand in the Land Cruiser.
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But it only got it thanks to the Prius mpg ratings. So it could go anywhere!

Ha! Nicely done.
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  #34  
Old July 14th, 2013, 10:05 AM
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I thought the letter was a great example of the crossroad that Land Rover is at, and hence made a good point of debate and conversation, which is an important part of the fellowship culture of enthusiasts. Getting nasty really has no part in difference of opinions here.
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  #35  
Old July 14th, 2013, 10:32 AM
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I thought the letter was a great example of the crossroad that Land Rover is at, and hence made a good point of debate and conversation, which is an important part of the fellowship culture of enthusiasts. Getting nasty really has no part in difference of opinions here.
There are two ways of looking at this it seems. Those that think this has to do with the Land Rover's mentality and those that understand that the guy could have potentially caused harm to himself, his property, something, or someone else and then sued the dealership. Appropriate letter inappropriate actions by somebody who clearly thinks they are too cool for school and above reasonable logic.
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  #36  
Old July 14th, 2013, 11:15 AM
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There isn't a single point of view in this thread so far that I've seen, that states the driver was in the right. He clearly had no right to be there and do that without permission. That leaves how the dealership handle the situation, and the larger and separate question of LRNA and vintage enthusiats. And I don't mean Land Rover as a brand, but LRNA specifically.

when I was at the Gabarone dealership in Botswana, the owner came out and welcomed us (and we arrived in a rented 130), brought us in, made us cappacino's and gave us a tour of the entire dealership. He had an entire hand made model collection of different Land Rovers he made himself that he showed us. And he knew there was zero chance of us buying a new Land Rover from him, but new we were enthusiasts, and that my possy had Rovers back home. He gave us all bags of swag as well. The only reason he did that was that we were American soldiers and that he new we were fellow enthusiasts, and he was clearly one himself. That is what I'm talking about as a good example of the larger Land Rover family.

I have a 110. It is my 2nd Rover. My first was a certified DI bought from LR Scottsdale. My wife has a 2004 DII, and she wants to upgrade to a Range Rover. When we do that, it will be from Certified from the LR Dealer. Just because we own a vintage doesn't mean we aren't long term clients of the Dealership. Most enthusiasts I know, also had, have or will have another Rover purchased from the dealer. The point I was making is that for LRNA dealerships, the ones that cast aside vintage Rover owners that show up and do not foster that fellowship do it at their own peril, as it is the vintage Rovers on the trails and actually pushing these vehicles to their design limits that help maintain the brand's credibility. Non-enthusiasts that buy Rovers now in large part will never go off road, but buy because it CAN. Just like urbanites that puy patagonia or exofficio clothing. When Rover loses the CAN in the perspective of public perception, it's over for them. The CAN is validated by enthusiasts, when they see vintage vehicles like Defenders on TV doing real work, or dirty Rovers on the road coming from or going to something interesting (almost always vintage). The Land Rover brand has been and will likely always be defined not by the vehicle alone, but by the lifestyle is represents. So a dirty, worn down 110 in the parking lot of Rover only adds to the brand image, and that should be fostered.

PS, I hate that they are doing away with the lodge design of the dealerships. That design represented the lifestyle that made Land Rover niche in the market.
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  #37  
Old July 14th, 2013, 11:29 AM
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For what it's worth, there are sales people in some of the south fl dealerships who have no idea how to use the traction control features on the new models. Ask me how I know....
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  #38  
Old July 14th, 2013, 11:35 AM
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For what it's worth, there are sales people in some of the south fl dealerships who have no idea how to use the traction control features on the new models. Ask me how I know....
Exactly. This new dealership culture is not consistent at all across the country, and the responsibility for building that consistency not only in the look of the dealership, but also the culture of the employees and sales force is the responsibility of LRNA.

If the fries were different in every McD's you went in, they wouldn't be the brand they are today. For Land Rover, their "fries" are the perceived capability, lifestyle and heritage.
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  #39  
Old July 14th, 2013, 11:36 AM
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There isn't a single point of view in this thread so far that I've seen, that states the driver was in the right. He clearly had no right to be there and do that without permission. That leaves how the dealership handle the situation, and the larger and separate question of LRNA and vintage enthusiats. And I don't mean Land Rover as a brand, but LRNA specifically.

when I was at the Gabarone dealership in Botswana, the owner came out and welcomed us (and we arrived in a rented 130), brought us in, made us cappacino's and gave us a tour of the entire dealership. He had an entire hand made model collection of different Land Rovers he made himself that he showed us. And he knew there was zero chance of us buying a new Land Rover from him, but new we were enthusiasts, and that my possy had Rovers back home. He gave us all bags of swag as well. The only reason he did that was that we were American soldiers and that he new we were fellow enthusiasts, and he was clearly one himself. That is what I'm talking about as a good example of the larger Land Rover family.

I have a 110. It is my 2nd Rover. My first was a certified DI bought from LR Scottsdale. My wife has a 2004 DII, and she wants to upgrade to a Range Rover. When we do that, it will be from Certified from the LR Dealer. Just because we own a vintage doesn't mean we aren't long term clients of the Dealership. Most enthusiasts I know, also had, have or will have another Rover purchased from the dealer. The point I was making is that for LRNA dealerships, the ones that cast aside vintage Rover owners that show up and do not foster that fellowship do it at their own peril, as it is the vintage Rovers on the trails and actually pushing these vehicles to their design limits that help maintain the brand's credibility. Non-enthusiasts that buy Rovers now in large part will never go off road, but buy because it CAN. Just like urbanites that puy patagonia or exofficio clothing. When Rover loses the CAN in the perspective of public perception, it's over for them. The CAN is validated by enthusiasts, when they see vintage vehicles like Defenders on TV doing real work, or dirty Rovers on the road coming from or going to something interesting (almost always vintage). The Land Rover brand has been and will likely always be defined not by the vehicle alone, but by the lifestyle is represents. So a dirty, worn down 110 in the parking lot of Rover only adds to the brand image, and that should be fostered.

PS, I hate that they are doing away with the lodge design of the dealerships. That design represented the lifestyle that made Land Rover niche in the market.
All true. I would argue that being American in a lot of countries, especially military from my experience, gets you invited in. As much as people say the US is hated there are a lot of people that are eager to meet you and be friendly. So it might not have just been because he thought you were enthusiasts.

There is a difference between an enthusiast and someone that is enthusiastic about owning a unique vehicle. Rolling up to a dealership in a vehicle should not warrant immediate attention and drool and respect simply because it is the marque. A rando making a joke from a dirty old rover is different than a rando making a joke from a super clean NAS 110 styled import copycat. I can understand how someone who was pushing a car while a rando's making a joke rather than offering to help would not want to show them the time of day especially if they aren't part of the sales team.
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  #40  
Old July 14th, 2013, 11:39 AM
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agreed
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