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Old March 18th, 2005, 12:45 AM
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Paul / Boultbee
1994 D-90, Green #1576
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Los Altos Hills California USA
Posts: 763
I bit my tongue - could not stop myself.
Picked up The Wall Street Journal today, Thursday March 17th and what do I see in Section D but more insults and damage. There is an article on the SUVs. Seems people want lots of seating but not the size of the big SUVs or the image of the minivan.

And there is the new Jeep Commander.
I have got to admit the entries speak volums:
Ford - Freestyle US company (LR3 is listed a lux car at $46+K)
GM - no entry US company
Chrysler - Jeep German
Toyota - 2 models
Seems only the imports are driving/leading/winning this segment, oh sorry the whole fu@kin car market. I'm sorry - the Ford Freestyle is going to compete with the "imaginary D90", the H2 family, the Toyotas, etc!!!? I read this article and am bi-polar. Side 1: take the 110 concept, marry it to the LR3 platform, body panels from the Defender, seat 6 + storage and reintroduce (have a 2 dr "off road king as a follow on to market overall strength of the line). Side 2: any new D90 will not be a D90 or 110 but a hybrid frankenstein piece of SHITE ... so bugger it!
Why can I not leave this alone. It really pisses me off to read, think, and stew on Fords management direction for this product. AAAAAHHHHH
O, and as a cover my arse -I prefer imports. Had a Jeep- tranny dropped, Ford - engine failed, and a Chrysler once - literally fell apart under warrenty. I lost faith, they lost a customer.

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Old March 18th, 2005, 04:50 PM

Posts: n/a
Homer voice on....WoooHoooo! .... Homer voice off...

I'm glad to hear that the existing NAS Defenders that we all have are not going to have their value diluted by the introduction of a new model that would certainly only be a "Defender" in name only.

I've got my 90SW and my 109.....well, ok, Pendy's got my 109 ...but hell, if I want another one George certainly has enough parts to build one.

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Old March 21st, 2005, 02:51 PM
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Michael-P. Richter
110 HT XD 1997
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lake Constance, Germany
Posts: 60
[QUOTE=whistler110]I don't think you will see the Defender disappear, just move. From what I understand you can still buy 300TDI versions in Africa and South America so the D will probably just move to countries that aren't as strict when regulations kill it in Europe. [QUOTE]

Follow-up Post:

Automatic 5 Speed with Steptronic

1 or 2 year Spareparts kits...
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 04:57 AM
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Brian OShea
1995 Defender 90 ST
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA / Denver, CO
Posts: 380
You hit the nail right on the head regarding the LR3. I would not be one bit surprise to see Ford rename the vehicle the Discover III, it's moniker in Europe. Sure it's a feeble attempt to capture some of the Disco's luster...and hopefully convert that into sales. Increasing the price of this truck, changing it's name, and denying it's heritage will cost Ford plenty. Regardless of how well this vehicle sells abroad...the U.S. market represents almost 70% of their projected market. I don't care if it is Motor Trend's SUV of the year...awards and (good) PR can be bought and sold to the highest bidders.

I was at a local dealership the other day and the salesmen were literally tripping over themselves to sell me on the LR3...especially when they saw my Defender roll up. I have owned both a Discovery I and II...and I would rather purchase a used Cayenne. Funny...because I am LR's target audience.

A bastardized Defender attempting to re-gain market share would definitely mark a parting of the ways between me and any new Land Rovers.

Land Rover is not only way off the mark...they are nowhere near their target.

Originally Posted by Ragland
On a similar note, does it seem the new LR3 is not generating the sales figures intended? Yes the price is a lot higher, and the low cost model hasn't made it to market yet. But in '94, there was a six to eight month wait for a Discovery in the southeast. It may be winning awards, but it is not generating buzz and they are already offering sales incentives. I think Land Rover is shooting off the mark.

And I agree with the comments above, better no new Defender than a bad one. Remember a few years back the talk of a "lifestyle" model for the North America market.
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 08:06 AM
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Mike Hippert
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94 D-90 Grinding Rover
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester NH USA
Posts: 4,790
Brian that movie is the best! and to stay on topic aimed at ford [/Napoleon Dynamite voice on] Ahhh Idiots! [Napoleon Dynamite voice off]
Don't forget to Search first then ask questions later! The loose nut behind the wheel
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 02:00 PM
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John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,902
Originally Posted by dbwitt
At about 25,000 units a year the Defender produces a nice profit, and redesigning it to make it U.S. crash-worthy once more would entail much higher costs than continuing with the existing vehicle, he says.
This is the logic that kills company's. The reason they only sell 25,000 per year is BECAUSE they have not updated the model in 20 years. If they came out with something that had appeal, then they could sell lots and make a bunch of money. Brain dead they are...
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 02:30 PM
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Mike Johnstone
ex-mod 110
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pemberton, B.C., Canada
Posts: 184
25,000 units a year doesn't sound too bad for a vehicle that doesn't require any R&D. It sounds like the 1984-199? Jeep Cherokee, they were able to keep the cost down because it had little overhead.
Bike Mike
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 03:03 PM
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Kai Dussling
2004 Disco II
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 14
You want to talk production runs... Here:

The eBearing News
July 30, 2003


VW Beetle Production Ends Today
copyright 2003 eBearing Inc.

The very last Volkswagen Beetle -- number 21,529,464 -- will roll off the assembly line in Puebla, Mexico today.

Designed in 1939 and in continuous production since 1945, the Beetle is the longest-running model in automotive history.

While the ubiquitous car had a long run, its final build schedule was for a run of only 3,000 special Ultima Edicion cars with special trim, in beige or light blue. So far this year, VW has sold fewer than 5,000 Beetles in Mexico.

Surviving many changes in taste, economics, politics and culture throughout the decades, the Beetle was eventually doomed by the relentless march of automotive technology. Serious crash-safety issues and environmental concerns surrounding its aged, oil-cooled powerplant finally ensured its demise.

Last sold in Germany in 1974, the Beetle held on in the U.S. marketplace through 1980. For many years, it was built in Brazil and Puebla, Mexico. The Brazilian line was closed in 1996, leaving Puebla and the large Mexican market (lacking modern safety equipment and pollution controls, Beetles cannot be sold legally in most other countries). The largest modern market for the car has been Mexico City's taxi fleet, where more than 70%, or nearly 100,000 of the cars, are Beetles. In October 2002, however, new regulations went into effect requiring all new Mexican taxis to have four doors. Many believe the Beetle, affectionately nicknamed "Vocho," might have soldiered on but for the new taxicab law.

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