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  #21  
Old December 20th, 2007, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willh
Dale's Website

www.theroverbarn.com

Dale's TJ

http://www.theroverbarn.com/2006_TJ_Unlimited.htm

He has the list of specs.

Will H.
It's really nice! But I know at least 4 Defenders that could spank that hard.
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #22  
Old December 21st, 2007, 08:37 AM
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Johnathan Tisdale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovertrader
Sadly, I am off early tomorrow to drive to NY to pick up a tropical roof for a Series 109, in a Ford truck, as neither the Jeep nor the Defender are up to the task to carry a 5' x 9' piece a total of 1500 miles in two days. I suppose the 110 could pull it off, but the back couldn't stand it.

As far as the Cruces Challenge- should we drive the trail rigs there and back for a total test? Wasn't that the jest of the article- all around best ?

Tis- I'll decide by Sunday- does that work for the mass entry mailing?
Of course in a thread titled JK vs Defender it is going to bring out passionate people's perspective given whichever side of the line in the sand they stand on.

We could drive our rigs to Cruces and see...but when we got back the 48 hour round trip would be subject to my opinion of comfort vs your opinion of comfort in our respective vehicles on the highway. Trail performance would probably speak for itself. As a result I trailer, not because I don't like driving my 90 on the highway, but mainly because it is traveling in comfort regardless of JK or Defender, and mainly so if I break something 2000 miles away I don't have to worry obout fixing it to get home. I believe you prefer trailering for the same reasons. Although not a JK, I have driven a Wrangler from LA to Chapel Hill, NC in 48 straight hours to make it back in time for fall semester when I was in college...35s, lift, lockers, ect. Was it comfortable, not Mercedes comfy, but not bad. On the other hand I used to drive my white 90 from GA to Moab or Colorado for the Natl rally. The last time I did that I drove it straight out to Moab wheeled for a week, the last day ran Upper Helldorado, broke an axle, fixed it with some help from the Kansas crew so I could hit the road in time, and drove straight home. That was about the time I decided trailering was a good idea. I'd say between my cross country highway experiences in those vehicles the comfort factor boiled down to hard top vs soft top. The jeep had a removeable hard top and it was significantly quieter at speed that the flapping plastic windows on the defender soft top for 30 hours.

Back to the point, and Will hits it on the head. As much as I like vintage FJ40s and land rovers, Jeep and to some degree Toyota (selectable lockers) are the only companies producing a true off road vehicle stock out of the box. Most other companies seem more content with selling trendy vehicles that portray a certain image but leave alot to be desired on the trail.

One last note, just as in college, I did not read the article but winged my way through this discussion based on responses and my own personal experiences.

Tis
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  #23  
Old December 21st, 2007, 09:32 AM
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You know, a lot of us put Jeep down and do the whole J**P thing etc. I used to as well. I actually felt guilty buying my JK, like I was cheating on my 90 or something But Will is right, what other "new" vehicle under warranty is offered in the US that gives you the off road ability (whatever your opinion on it is, it's better than most), soft top, car seats, luggage space, and highway manners that lets you take an 8 hour trip in relative comfort? Auto makers are getting soft on "off road vehicles", and I applaud Jeep for still offering a true trail vehicle with no top and removable doors in todays PC world. I am and always will be a Rover guy, but until that mythical "new Defender" hits our shores, I have what I feel like is the next best thing...
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  #24  
Old December 21st, 2007, 11:36 AM
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Somewhat related to this conversation, remember the proposed "lifestyle" Defender - a mainstream vehicle marketed for the US and western countries while the real Defender went to RoW nations and commericial/military use? The truck would be less costly to produce as it would benefit from an assembly process where more robots and less people were needed. The project was shelved for lack of money and perceived need.

I believe the lifestyle Defender was to have IFS and an automotive journalist-loving comfy ride, cushy interior, and big dashboard buttons and switches. There is little doubt in my mind today's Jeep Rubicon would walk all over this vehicle had it made into production. The two would be competing head to head today.
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  #25  
Old December 21st, 2007, 11:36 AM
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I like Jeeps. I wheel with them almost every trip. Stock to stock they are better offroad, and much easier to build. Plus, there arn't a lot of LR's that go where we do. But that doesn't change the fact that a build D can take down a built Jeep, expecially a 4WPW super glue Jeep.

That said, when you get to a cirtain level of build, a built anything can outperform a built anything. Now I'm way off topic...
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #26  
Old December 21st, 2007, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
I like Jeeps. I wheel with them almost every trip. Stock to stock they are better offroad, and much easier to build. Plus, there arn't a lot of LR's that go where we do. But that doesn't change the fact that a build D can take down a built Jeep, expecially a 4WPW super glue Jeep.

That said, when you get to a cirtain level of build, a built anything can outperform a built anything. Now I'm way off topic...
haha, as i was reading your comment i was thinking to myself where do you draw the line from modified jeep. defender into custom built wheeling machine! Of course your is over the line... I like the defender, i can't wait to start moding it up some so i can take on my bro's jeep, which right now will smack me around up and down the trail...
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  #27  
Old December 21st, 2007, 02:16 PM
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Will Hedrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke
I actually felt guilty buying my JK, like I was cheating on my 90 or something

I can completely empathize with you. I agonized about it. Luckily, my rover friends have cut me some slack when we're out wheelin' and I'm the black sheep of the bunch. Nothing more than the usual ribbing, and it's all in good fun. But on the other hand, let me also say, that a few of my rover friends, having seen what the new JK can do, are now also JK owners.

Will H.
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  #28  
Old December 21st, 2007, 03:07 PM
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And the Chrysler lifetime warranty looks awesome!

http://www.jeep.com/en/lifetime_powertrain_warranty/
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  #29  
Old December 21st, 2007, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke
You know, a lot of us put Jeep down and do the whole J**P thing etc. I used to as well. I actually felt guilty buying my JK, like I was cheating on my 90 or something.... I am and always will be a Rover guy, but until that mythical "new Defender" hits our shores, I have what I feel like is the next best thing...
I think it is understood that putting down Jeeps around here is more or less all in good fun. The only time I ever seriously put down a Jeep is when you get some guy with a shit eating grin on his face in a straight-out-of-4Wheel Parts lifted Jeep that has clearly never seen dirt talking about how his jeep could spank any "frail British piece of shit out there" (yes, I am thinking of one person in particular, but unfortunately, we all know that there are a lot of kids in lifted Jeeps out there that think they're the shit... not to say all jeep owners, obviously, but I think we all know the kind i'm talking about).

fact of the matter is they are both good cars, both have their advantages. Jeeps are for some people, Land Rovers are for others, just as some people favor Mercedes, some people favor BMW, Ford v. Chevy, etc etc
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  #30  
Old December 21st, 2007, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkavan01
haha, as i was reading your comment i was thinking to myself where do you draw the line from modified jeep. defender into custom built wheeling machine! Of course your is over the line... I like the defender, i can't wait to start moding it up some so i can take on my bro's jeep, which right now will smack me around up and down the trail...
But wait....

Am I actually over the line? I still have a completely stock rover drivetrain. 300tdi to R380 to LT. I still have a lot of frame too. I still have most of the body also. So there is a serious question to be asked, could you do this well in a Jeep with so much Jeep? Maybe not. You have to get 60's or 9's to go where we go in a Rover or a Jeep. But I don't know many Jeeps that have a stock t-case, or stock PS box. Is a Defender a better building platform? Hmmmmm???
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #31  
Old December 21st, 2007, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
But wait....

Am I actually over the line? I still have a completely stock rover drivetrain. 300tdi to R380 to LT. I still have a lot of frame too. I still have most of the body also. So there is a serious question to be asked, could you do this well in a Jeep with so much Jeep? Maybe not. You have to get 60's or 9's to go where we go in a Rover or a Jeep. But I don't know many Jeeps that have a stock t-case, or stock PS box. Is a Defender a better building platform? Hmmmmm???
in my book your decidely over the line
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  #32  
Old December 21st, 2007, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkavan01
in my book your decidely over the line
Thanks! Wait till you see what I have in store.
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  #33  
Old December 21st, 2007, 11:07 PM
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well I have never seen any Defenders on 35" with a stock spare.


If "they" would make another like the Scrambler CJ8 I would buy one. Untill then I will continue to save for a 110 Hicap.
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  #34  
Old December 22nd, 2007, 09:45 AM
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We talking about rock crawling only? You can do it with a 4 banger with the right gearing (even in the axles only) so I don't think the D90 beats the cheap any there.

Now if you want to compare how much your suspension and tires compare to stock, then I think you have a fair fight.

charles
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  #35  
Old December 22nd, 2007, 10:34 AM
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I didn't read the link from the first post...don't need to. I'd rather have a sister working in a whorehouse than a brother driving a Jeep!!!
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  #36  
Old December 22nd, 2007, 10:36 PM
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JK's workin' for a living.

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Pic 2 Pic 3
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  #37  
Old December 22nd, 2007, 10:42 PM
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OK, let me digress. I didn't mean to get off Will's initial post- stock new D-110 vs. stock JK. I can't imagine being w/o a Defender or three.
Short story: We were wheeling a 30k mile D-90 at Paragon w/ a bunch of Jeeps a few years ago. The two realities hit home:
A) Why wheel a truck this valuable this hard?
B) The Jeeps are like a Gazelle on the rocks ( about 1 to 1.5K # lighter), while the Rovers are like Rhinos.
I sold that particular 90- after putting it back to stock, and sold most of the kit. That was to be the budget to build a street legal buggie to wheel or take the kids for ice cream. The budget got blown considerably, but the TJ is awesome- albeit only about 30% Jeep at this point.
All that said, I was stirring the pot- intentionally- and poking at Tis about driving to CC- although the Jeep still has a/c that works and is integrated to the dash, cruise, etc. Bottom line- a big departure from Will's intended- I assume- discussion. Sorry.
And yes, I have replaced the D-II family wheeler w/ a JK 4-door Rubicon w/ soft door tops, a 2" OME and 35's, bumpers and a winch. The rest is there from the factory, and warranted for life. But I can't give up my 110 just yet......
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  #38  
Old December 22nd, 2007, 11:05 PM
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JK's workin' for a living.

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  #39  
Old December 22nd, 2007, 11:22 PM
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Here ya go.

Will H.
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  #40  
Old December 23rd, 2007, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovertrader
OK, let me digress. I didn't mean to get off Will's initial post- stock new D-110 vs. stock JK. I can't imagine being w/o a Defender or three.
Short story: We were wheeling a 30k mile D-90 at Paragon w/ a bunch of Jeeps a few years ago. The two realities hit home:
A) Why wheel a truck this valuable this hard?
B) The Jeeps are like a Gazelle on the rocks ( about 1 to 1.5K # lighter), while the Rovers are like Rhinos.
I sold that particular 90- after putting it back to stock, and sold most of the kit. That was to be the budget to build a street legal buggie to wheel or take the kids for ice cream. The budget got blown considerably, but the TJ is awesome- albeit only about 30% Jeep at this point.
All that said, I was stirring the pot- intentionally- and poking at Tis about driving to CC- although the Jeep still has a/c that works and is integrated to the dash, cruise, etc. Bottom line- a big departure from Will's intended- I assume- discussion. Sorry.
And yes, I have replaced the D-II family wheeler w/ a JK 4-door Rubicon w/ soft door tops, a 2" OME and 35's, bumpers and a winch. The rest is there from the factory, and warranted for life. But I can't give up my 110 just yet......
Your so far off on weight its shocking. Your Jeep will tip the scales at near 5,000 LB or over. Jeeps are heavier than Defenders. And the anti-squat isn't even close. I crush most Jeeps in the rocks, but thats all I run.

And PS. You don't have a buggy.
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