Ironic how a thread talking about over-moderation got closed - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 11th, 2012, 05:34 PM
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Ironic how a thread talking about over-moderation got closed

I welcome our new overlord.



Andy, I can assure you Gus was being forthright and honest about letting you flip the site for a profit now. He does not mess around and he has the money to back it up. Taking your advice in the thread that was closed, I have posted elsewhere. No one is trying to ruin the site or anything like that to make you sell out cheap. We just don't want it to change. At all.
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  #2  
Old February 11th, 2012, 05:40 PM
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Good point
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  #3  
Old February 11th, 2012, 06:43 PM
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I am sure Gus had nothing but the most sincere and genuine intentions. I appreciate his offer and respectfully declined in that other thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
We just don't want it to change. At all.
I understand your perspective, honestly, I do. Unfortunately things do change, it's a fact of life.

Everyone should take a moment to read CvC's post from 6 weeks ago where he addresses the atmosphere changing around here:
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=34922

Some members have stated the atmosphere has deteriorated over the last couple of years and they frequent the site less because of the negativity. It appears most of the drama is just a few guys stirring the pot. That's all fine and dandy but there is a limit where it turns from funny shit talking to a mean and negative vibe that taints the atmosphere. Our goal will be to allow tons of freedom while trying to reduce the mean and negative vibes.

The vision for this community is to be a moderated site (that's why Chris has always had moderators) and we will not let this site turn into a Discoweb or Pirate4x4. If members don't want any moderation, well, then you will need to find a new home. Chris outlined the Community Rules many moons ago. Our team will simply follow a process to deal with issues where members violate those simple rules.

It's not a hard strategy to figure out. A few of the common shit stirrers decide they don't want anyone to crack down on them so they start threads claiming over moderation is ruining this site (I am not talking about this thread) even though the issue was totally minor and a matter of semantics (link). The more this group keeps stirring the pot the more they attempt to force the management to either give in and let things remain the same or moderate them when they cross the line. If the latter is done they cry foul again and this fuels the next round of crying that the site is being ruined.

When push comes to shove (which it appears some people would like for it to get to that point) we will take action. That will force change, like it or not. So if the members here don't want any change then we just move forward with business as usual. If some members continue to take every opportunity to whine about how this place is managed then they can go find a new sandbox.
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  #4  
Old February 11th, 2012, 07:41 PM
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You're like a cat, you shit in our sandbox.
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  #5  
Old February 11th, 2012, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
You're like a cat, you shit in our sandbox.
Could you provide examples?

Nothing has changed since I took ownership of the site last summer.

Our team has taken three actions in the last 5 months:
1) Dan was banned and his buddies don't like that. Many members have PMed saying it was long over due.
2) One post in the classified section was moderated (as per our community rules).
3) I closed the other thread because it was hijacked (as per our community rules).

Nothing has changed but you all are claiming we are now headed in the wrong direction. I can't help but feel this is not about moderation but more about feeling sold out.

What else has been done other then try to defend myself against people who are jumping to conclusions or accusing me of stuff that's either not true, or hasn't happened yet. At a bare minimum you all should give me the benefit of the doubt to see if I am a man of my word and will manage this place as has been stated in the past.
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  #6  
Old February 11th, 2012, 08:28 PM
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I would close this thread because it is mean.
How's that truck search going?
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  #7  
Old February 11th, 2012, 08:29 PM
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I fail to see how this isn't a move in the right direction. I applaud Andy for seeing the value in this site and investing in its longevity. This is the only US Defender focused forum on the net and is certainly worth maintaining. Andy isn't creating any new rules he is simply asking that you respect the same rules previously created by CvC which no one ever whined about. We all agree that there is no value added from insecure individuals making personal attacks in for sale threads. This site will move on, so those who are complaining do us all a favor and get back to what we greatly appreciate...your knowledge of Defenders.
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  #8  
Old February 11th, 2012, 08:31 PM
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I, for one- do think this forum has gotten better. Is it perfect? No, are any forums perfect? No.

If people want to be able to drag each other through the proverbial mud, there are plenty of forums for that, Pirate4x4, Dweb, etc. But D-90 was not that kind of forum, originally...and as it started to turn into that, some people loved it, but a lot of others hated it. At the last MAR I went to I talked to a few people that have said that D90 was starting to suck because it was no longer a "gentleman's forum" -

This forum is offered free of charge to the users, however- it is not free for them to run. It still has associated costs, and like it or not...it is a product w/ a real value. If I walked into a local store and ignored common courtesy and belittled and degraded the other customers....the manager/owner would most likely ask to me first...knock it off, and second throw me out of the store. It is his right to do so.

I am not perfect, and there are times when I run my mouth and shouldn't do it on here either, but...there is a line of common decency that I try not to cross,...because if I did...it takes away from the value of what D90 is as a site / service that people come on here to take part in.

This forum is bigger than any one user on here- that is the point of a forum. If people arent happy with the new direction of it, its a free world and they can start their own forum elsewhere. However, most people are not on a forum to be continually dragged into the drama and hyperbole that attracts the 1or 2 percent of people on here that do it.

Andy is trying to maintain the forums good name, I don't think that is out of line at all. The moderators let people get away with a lot on here, .. but there is a limit. It is in no one persons right to come to a forum and destroy the value for every other user trying to exchange information, ideas, sell vehicles, parts, get support for local events, trail clean ups, etc etc.

I have met some great people through D90.com, and I understand that a minority of people feel that change, no matter how slight is not acceptable. But...how practical is that?

Time will tell if Andy is making the right decisions....and no matter if he did nothing, or if he revamped the entire website...it would make people unhappy. At the end of the day I think that more people will like how it is being managed. There will ALWAYS be other options out there...and although I would hate to see some of the folks leave that have so much knowledge, insight and experience leave...if following a few rules is going to drive them away...I really dont think it would be practical to try to keep those few members over the larger majority of folks choose to.

Obviously from the amount of passion that has gone into these arguments, a lot of folks really value D-90 as a forum. I certainly know I do.
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  #9  
Old February 11th, 2012, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverhound View Post
How's that truck search going?
How many times are you going to ask?
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...8&postcount=66

Since you are persistent on that question, I did spend some time today in the classifieds getting familiarized with the NAS 110s that have been listed. I also looked around down here in Brazil and there are some great trucks available at prices that are more reasonable then I thought.
http://www.ooyyo.ie/used-cars/land+r.../sort-year+asc

How is your search going?
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  #10  
Old February 11th, 2012, 08:34 PM
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To me this is pretty simple:
1. I have not seen any crazy changes other than banning Dan, which he deserved.
2. Great job expanding PM capacity, and the registry is great.
3. There is already a vendors section where we/they can pedal their wares, this doesn't seem to be an issue with anyone.
And the big one...
4. If I don't like the changes Andy imposes, I'll find a new website to waste my time on.

We all have a passion for this website, but I think we need to give it some time to see the changes before passing judgement on perceived changes.

Obligatory smiley
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  #11  
Old February 11th, 2012, 08:37 PM
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Andy, d-90 has been fine the last couple of years without any change. The members that were posting in the closed are active on this site and have a lot to contribute. If you don't listen to them and take some advice this site will fail. People come here for what it is. Change it and people will go else where. If you alienate the frequent posters and drive them away then you will not get new bs topics, sale threads, or tech. Without those things you won't see traffic. I'm not even sure why you think you can run and moderate an established rover site when your info implies you don't even own one. If I were you I would back off, hide in the shadows, and let d90 run its course like it has been. I for one don't EVER go to the over moderated sites. D90 kind of blows already...
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  #12  
Old February 11th, 2012, 08:38 PM
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The registry is awesome. Maybe make the badge number and VIN a separate field.
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  #13  
Old February 11th, 2012, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quick128 View Post
I'm not even sure why you think you can run and moderate an established rover site when your info implies you don't even own one.
That's why we have a Site Team of passionate members who are all long time avid Defender owners including the founder of the site (CvC).
Quote:
Originally Posted by quick128 View Post
If I were you I would back off, hide in the shadows, and let d90 run its course like it has been.
In all actuality that is what I do. It's my job to empower the team and support them. The rules are still the same we just won't let anyone push the limits as far as a recently banned member did.
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  #14  
Old February 11th, 2012, 08:58 PM
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Beginning of the end?
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  #15  
Old February 11th, 2012, 09:00 PM
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We don't need a team of passionate people to watch over us. I like pushing the limits.
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  #16  
Old February 11th, 2012, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
To me this is pretty simple:
1. I have not seen any crazy changes other than banning Dan, which he deserved.
2. Great job expanding PM capacity, and the registry is great.
3. There is already a vendors section where we/they can pedal their wares, this doesn't seem to be an issue with anyone.
And the big one...
4. If I don't like the changes Andy imposes, I'll find a new website to waste my time on.

We all have a passion for this website, but I think we need to give it some time to see the changes before passing judgement on perceived changes.

Obligatory smiley
I agree. All this hand wringing seems absurd. Dan practically dared them to ban him, who was surprised?
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  #17  
Old February 11th, 2012, 09:04 PM
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D-90 is the new muddy oval. Maybe syoung wants to join the team.
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  #18  
Old February 11th, 2012, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
Beginning of the end?
The Mayans were right??!?!



Quote:
Originally Posted by quick128 View Post
We don't need a ream of passionate people to watch over us. I like pushing the limits.
Pushing is fine, as long as it's not totally disrespectful and mean spirited.
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  #19  
Old February 11th, 2012, 09:25 PM
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This site does kinda blow. I mean, all I ever do here is sort through thousands of threads with tons of information regarding a niche vehicle provided free by hundreds of members. And if there is no information pertaining to what I specifically need to know, I have to go completely out of my way and take the time to type in a question that usually gets answered in a matter of a few hours. Geez what a drag. One of the worst things I have discovered in the last couple of years since getting involved here is that the community seems to really want to help out fellow enthusiasts. People have even burdened me by giving me free parts because they had them laying around when I was in need. Because of this site I have spent way more money than I should on vehicles that I don't need. I am already considering buying parts for the truck I don't have possession of yet just because y'all make it look so fun. It's ridiculous!

All in all I just see this as a community of individuals that enable others, some complete strangers and some future friends, and I can't see how that is any good.

End of sarcastic rant.

Thank you to all who make this a great place to go for information, entertainment and community.

Cheers
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  #20  
Old February 11th, 2012, 09:31 PM
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This thread is a crack-up. You have two guys who both bought their way into this community--one by buying a D110 that somebody else restored, and the other by buying the website--but neither have contributed anything to this site. Both of them showed up in 2011 and have barely over 100 posts, yet both claim to have a "vision" for this site and think they know what's best for this place.

Andy, before you start calling people shit-stirrers, take a few minutes and learn about some of the people who posted in that closed thread. People like Ron and Phillip have contributed thousands of useful posts here. All of the check-out-my-super-awesome-iPad-swivel-build posts in the world won't equal one of Ron's tech posts. When you run the old-timer regulars off, who is going to patiently answer your newcomers questions? The DiscoNomad--errrrrr----NomaD110? Good luck with that!
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