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  #61  
Old February 12th, 2012, 03:51 PM
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The alarm lately seems to be all based around 1) the concern that the owners will ultimately pander to sponsors and 2) defending people's right to be impolite. The former hasn't happened, and the latter is unsatisfactory.

As I see it, if you are on this board, then we are basically standing around in someone's driveway on a Saturday afternoon wrenching on Rovers and BSing. If you're replacing your clutch lines and need help, great. If you are installing cones and half the people think they're lame, that's OK too - they can even say so if they do it politely. Some people might swap parts, or sell them. Maybe you're just there to drink beer and socialize that day. All fine. No one is obligated to stand around and applaud someone that makes a bumper out of wood or a snorkel out of PVC, and constructive criticism bordering on ridicule might even be appropriate, but you all know how to act at someone else's house.

In this situation, why would you insult someone? Would you tell them that they are stupid for saying something is "galvanized" when it was actually coated with passively deposited zinc? No, you wouldn't. If you would then you're an asshole and you won't be invited back. No one gets to be a different person in the driveway than in normal life. You are all responsible for your damned behavior here just as you would be at my house. No one gets a free pass to be an ass just because it's the internet.

All this crap that's going on lately is basically the lamest shit I've ever seen here. If this board ends up sucking, it will be because
1) knowledgeable people don't help out people looking for info
2) inveterate jackasses like Dan Chapman are allowed to run rampant
3) people see this sort of trash as "entertainment"

I'll quit I protest long before this site turns into ExPo.
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  #62  
Old February 12th, 2012, 04:10 PM
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It was nice to see the community rally around each other when Brad Harris passed away - even I was surprised, and was happy to donate to help his family in need after such a terrible tragedy. It's a shame things like that are easily forgotten - an extreme example but it's like what I remember the roadways being like on 9/12/01....I was shocked at how courteous other drivers were to their fellow humans sitting in rush hour traffic around DC in the days immediately following. Fast forward and we're all back to being dicks behind the wheel (sometimes myself included admittedly), and in life.

Life is too short to dwell on the petty stuff...everyone I've met on here (whether in person or via the board) has always gone out of their way to be helpful, and I've tried to do the same to anyone else I've come across in need of parts, advice, or similar. For the most part seems that the majority of folks are the same way - particularly in person.

It's easy to let things turn into a pissing match behind a computer. Bottom line is the majority of things on here are not worth getting bent out of shape about. Get back to reality, grab a beer, and move on. And don't sweat the small stuff.
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  #63  
Old February 12th, 2012, 04:27 PM
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Jerod.

You still don't get it. We have a difference of opinion, thats it. Last I checked, difference of opinions are still allow here. My opinion was that I think Defenders should be used for the purpose for which they are built for. Off-road. I understand why someone would put rock sliders on a rig that will never go off-road but that doesn't mean I have to agree to it. I will always have more respect for Bill Burke than a movie star in an ECR cream puff (and I greatly admire ECRs work). That said, I still respect your freedom to do whatever you want to do to your vehicle but it doesn't mean I have to like it. My personal theory behind my opinion is that not using Defenders for what they were built for deteriorates their authenticity. That is my opinion. Please respect it. To confess, I too am not perfect. I sometimes also get carried away with accessories that I don't really need. Bottom line is I think Defender owners should be encouraged to go off-road. If you find that offensive there is nothing I can do for you.

Sure our discussion was heated at times and I'll be the first to admit that I too can get carried away in a heated discussion but I NEVER made personal attacks. I know nothing about you. My comments in our discussion were always in general terms and never directed at you! In fact, you didn't join the discussion until after I had stated my opinion. You are the one who decided to take it personally as seen on your outburst on your blog. I'm sorry but I can't be held responsible for you taking offense when I'm speaking in general terms about something as uncontroversial as this. In fact, It appears that you have trouble respecting my opinion more so than the other way around.

You can do whatever you like to your Defender. I don't understand why you are trying to twist this into a personal attack, because it isn't. I also don't understand why you need my permission. If you like bolt-on decorations to impress people at Starbucks (your own words), don't be ashamed of it. I honestly don't understand why you reacted to strongly to this. Embrace it! Why do you care what I think? We still share our interest in Defenders and we are here to learn and have fun. Let's leave this behind us and move on.

You win (if that is important to you).



Quote:
Originally Posted by founD90 View Post
Carl, nice to see that you've become one of the grown-ups. Does this mean I can now put rock sliders on my truck for my infrequent trips to Starbucks and the tennis club without your scorn and hatred?
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  #64  
Old February 12th, 2012, 05:43 PM
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Carl,

Your posts of late are spot on, and I agree with your assessment of how the board should be moderated.
I just hope that as a mod, you recognize this and act appropriately, rather than let things get out of hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manimal View Post
Jerod.

You still don't get it. We have a difference of opinion, thats it. Last I checked, difference of opinions are still allow here. My opinion was that I think Defenders should be used for the purpose for which they are built for. Off-road. I understand why someone would put rock sliders on a rig that will never go off-road but that doesn't mean I have to agree to it. I will always have more respect for Bill Burke than a movie star in an ECR cream puff (and I greatly admire ECRs work). That said, I still respect your freedom to do whatever you want to do to your vehicle but it doesn't mean I have to like it. My personal theory behind my opinion is that not using Defenders for what they were built for deteriorates their authenticity. That is my opinion. Please respect it. To confess, I too am not perfect. I sometimes also get carried away with accessories that I don't really need. Bottom line is I think Defender owners should be encouraged to go off-road. If you find that offensive there is nothing I can do for you.

Sure our discussion was heated at times and I'll be the first to admit that I too can get carried away in a heated discussion but I NEVER made personal attacks. I know nothing about you. My comments in our discussion were always in general terms and never directed at you! In fact, you didn't join the discussion until after I had stated my opinion. You are the one who decided to take it personally as seen on your outburst on your blog. I'm sorry but I can't be held responsible for you taking offense when I'm speaking in general terms about something as uncontroversial as this. In fact, It appears that you have trouble respecting my opinion more so than the other way around.

You can do whatever you like to your Defender. I don't understand why you are trying to twist this into a personal attack, because it isn't. I also don't understand why you need my permission. If you like bolt-on decorations to impress people at Starbucks (your own words), don't be ashamed of it. I honestly don't understand why you reacted to strongly to this. Embrace it! Why do you care what I think? We still share our interest in Defenders and we are here to learn and have fun. Let's leave this behind us and move on.

You win (if that is important to you).
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  #65  
Old February 12th, 2012, 05:46 PM
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John B.
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I really think things have been well covered, but I thought a couple of points should be restated to make sure everyone understands.

First, the moderators and administrators are a team. All "serious" moderation is discussed amongst the team before an action is taken. In addition, we can all see after the fact what happened and who did it, so discussion can happen after the fact as well. As Andy pointed out, the team is not a group of buddies that blindly follow each other. It is a diverse group that gives a balanced view. The group includes ALL of the moderators that were here before the change of ownership.

Second, to belabour a point... The only moderator actions that ever have occurred or will occur are to keep the forums within the boundaries of the rules set out by Chris a long time ago. The rules have not changed and there is no plan to change them.

If you do not want to post within the rules, then go find another forum to post on. It is that simple. There are a lot of Rover forums that have no rules and they would love to have you.
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  #66  
Old February 12th, 2012, 06:29 PM
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The problem is that nobody enforced the rules before, they were more like guidelines anyway, so you can't just come in and apply the guidelines and expect people to be happy about it.
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  #67  
Old February 12th, 2012, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quick128 View Post
The problem is that nobody enforced the rules before, they were more like guidelines anyway, so you can't just come in and apply the guidelines and expect people to be happy about it.
I agree. Its sort of like a pendulum and things swung too far to one side. We want to bring things back to the middle and many members are worried its going to swing back too far the other way. I can assure you all our intent is not to make this some candy coated place all we want is reduce the number of personal attacks and to foster a more positive environment.

Also, regarding the comment about calling someone a dick. It's all about context in which it is used. It's not just a yes/no answer to if it's an issue or not. If you have a friend who mentions how he got some crazy money for selling a spare part to some newbie down the road and you call him a dick, that's one thing. If someone buys a part that you were desperately trying to find and in a fun sort of talking shit kind of way you say "I can't believe you got that before me you dick." then it's fine. When it's not cool is when you don't know the person and just blurt out "You're a dick..." to them. That's mean spirited in my book and the type of comments we should check at the door or leave for Pirate or DWeb.

The same would go for a meeting of friends. There are plenty of fun ways to call each other assholes, douche bags, pussy, etc but on the internet that joking feel might not come through in writing as it would in person when you call them that, smile and laugh.
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  #68  
Old February 12th, 2012, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
The alarm lately seems to be all based around 1) the concern that the owners will ultimately pander to sponsors and 2) defending people's right to be impolite. The former hasn't happened, and the latter is unsatisfactory.

As I see it, if you are on this board, then we are basically standing around in someone's driveway on a Saturday afternoon wrenching on Rovers and BSing. If you're replacing your clutch lines and need help, great. If you are installing cones and half the people think they're lame, that's OK too - they can even say so if they do it politely. Some people might swap parts, or sell them. Maybe you're just there to drink beer and socialize that day. All fine. No one is obligated to stand around and applaud someone that makes a bumper out of wood or a snorkel out of PVC, and constructive criticism bordering on ridicule might even be appropriate, but you all know how to act at someone else's house.

In this situation, why would you insult someone? Would you tell them that they are stupid for saying something is "galvanized" when it was actually coated with passively deposited zinc? No, you wouldn't. If you would then you're an asshole and you won't be invited back. No one gets to be a different person in the driveway than in normal life. You are all responsible for your damned behavior here just as you would be at my house. No one gets a free pass to be an ass just because it's the internet.

All this crap that's going on lately is basically the lamest shit I've ever seen here. If this board ends up sucking, it will be because
1) knowledgeable people don't help out people looking for info
2) inveterate jackasses like Dan Chapman are allowed to run rampant
3) people see this sort of trash as "entertainment"

I'll quit I protest long before this site turns into ExPo.
That is as well as it could be put in my opinion. Very well said indeed.
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  #69  
Old February 12th, 2012, 09:07 PM
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I'll do my best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by founD90
Carl,

Your posts of late are spot on, and I agree with your assessment of how the board should be moderated.
I just hope that as a mod, you recognize this and act appropriately, rather than let things get out of hand.
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  #70  
Old February 12th, 2012, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
You're like a cat, you shit in our sandbox.
Can't believe you chose that route. I'd have thought you would go with "this place ain't the same since Discus..."
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  #71  
Old February 12th, 2012, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarchand View Post
Can't believe you chose that route. I'd have thought you would go with "this place ain't the same since Discus..."
Ahh the good old days
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  #72  
Old February 12th, 2012, 11:29 PM
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My 2c
A forum is like a bar.
What make a good bar?
People and atmosphere.
We all come back to the same bar to talk to the same people and get the same drink. D-90 is a for the most part a gentleman's club. The woman are the trucks and the drinks are parts.
Some times people get to excited/have to much to drink/ and there friends take them home/call them out in a thread.

Andy
The core people on this site are concerned because they don't want their local club turned into an Applebee’s.
They feel it is their site and in a way they are correct. They made the posts that made D90 what it is.

New mods.
If Eric was not able to complain about the lights I would never know he was unhappy. I could not fix the problem. Believe me as a Vendor I would prefer he sent me a PM. But when you think about it, Eric did the right thing for the club. He warned everyone about the potential issues.
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=35293

CVC
Thank you for sharing your site with us all these years!
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  #73  
Old February 13th, 2012, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVaKevin View Post
The changes going on this site will not deter me from this site, but grown men consistently bitching will. If you don't like it, please unshbscribe and spare the rest of us having to read five paragraph rants. Thanks to andy and the other moderator's for putting up with the petty bs.
Wait a minute! You have to read them? I had no idea.
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  #74  
Old February 13th, 2012, 05:27 AM
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Alright. Two threads related to the banning of Dan. I still don't quite understand why he was banned. Can somebody link to the "bad things" on other forums that are referenced in the other thread by Andy or posts on here of what he did or said that was so horrendous that he is one of two people ever to be banned so I have an idea of what is apparently "not cool". It isn't clear to me.

------ Follow up post added February 13th, 2012 05:33 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverhound View Post
Wait a minute! You have to read them? I had no idea.
I was thinking the exact thing when I read that. Egoism comes to mind. You leave so I don't have to read your post rather than I choose to ignore you.
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  #75  
Old February 13th, 2012, 06:39 AM
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Justin said it perfectly. This place is going from the smokey basement bar where the regulars hang out to an applebees where more thought is given to once a year customer and bringing in new people than to the regulars who built the place.

I would also like to know some of the terrible things dan did to get banned and also the criteria for picking the site team. I only just realized one of them is canadian and to be honest, that concerns me.
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  #76  
Old February 13th, 2012, 07:43 AM
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It had to be Applebee’s as the example, huh?
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  #77  
Old February 13th, 2012, 08:48 AM
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I thought it was more like Chotchkie's. The mods are picked by the amount of flare on their trucks. (Joking if you have never seen the movie Office Space)
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  #78  
Old February 13th, 2012, 08:51 AM
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This thread has over 2000 views in 40 hours. The other closed one has 3000 in 48. Both are clearly "hits" on D-90.

Recall when DC101 and WNBC were trying to contain Howard Stern…. they couldn’t. The execs wanted to reel him in or show him the door. That was until they determined people who hated Stern listened to his show ~ 2x more than the people who liked it. They relented and reaped the profits.
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  #79  
Old February 13th, 2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
This thread has over 2000 views in 40 hours. The other closed one has 3000 in 48. Both are clearly "hits" on D-90.
I was told there'd be no math.
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  #80  
Old February 13th, 2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
Alright. Two threads related to the banning of Dan. I still don't quite understand why he was banned. Can somebody link to the "bad things" on other forums that are referenced in the other thread by Andy or posts on here of what he did or said that was so horrendous that he is one of two people ever to be banned so I have an idea of what is apparently "not cool". It isn't clear to me.

------ Follow up post added February 13th, 2012 05:33 AM ------



I was thinking the exact thing when I read that. Egoism comes to mind. You leave so I don't have to read your post rather than I choose to ignore you.
I'd like to see it too...more from curiosity than anything else.
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