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  #1  
Old July 14th, 2009, 04:25 PM
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Import Defender Pricing leveling out?

I'm just wondering when these 25+ yo defender will actually drop to true market value as opposed to $15k to $20k for a vehicle thats worth only 3k quid across the pond? (i know there is the cost to import it)
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  #2  
Old July 14th, 2009, 04:45 PM
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John

It's a supply and demand situation. If you think you can do better than what is being offered than as a rule, you have to do it yourself. Unless you are on the ground over in the UK or elsewhere, there is some risk involved. IMO the prices have already dropped from waht was being asked in the first wave of legal 83 imports. From what I have seen, a good US legal truck in the UK will double in value if it falls into the hands of a reseller. If you want an upgraded motor and drivetrain then the value again goes up accordingly. I have only brought in one truck versus others who have done many more but I look at the listings more often than I am willing to admit. You are not very likely to find a nice truck with a solid backbone and a modern (read tdi) engine for 3k GBP. If you do, grab it and sort out the details later. And do it now becuae the pound is going back up. And there are plenty of helpful folks on here with lots of importation experience who will help you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
I'm just wondering when these 25+ yo defender will actually drop to true market value as opposed to $15k to $20k for a vehicle thats worth only 3k quid across the pond? (i know there is the cost to import it)
edit

not to mention that despite what i consider a very low original price, by the time I am done putting in a tdi and r380 plus all the upgrades I have done, I am well over double my original cost including shipping.
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Old July 14th, 2009, 05:05 PM
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I just missed an 84 110 with 200tdi and galvy chassis that looked nice for 2k pounds. I figured it would be about $7000 US by the time I paid Doug his fee and covered the shipping and all that to the US. Deals are out there (there is a somewhat rusty but not terrible 110 with a 300tdi that needs work for 800ukp on ebay uk) and if you are just looking for a donor, lots of 83-85s (which can be imported in a few months) are selling for 500-1000ukp. If you skipped the agent fee (I would not recommend this) you could get one here for <$4k or so.
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Old July 14th, 2009, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
I'm just wondering when these 25+ yo defender will actually drop to true market value as opposed to $15k to $20k for a vehicle thats worth only 3k quid across the pond? (i know there is the cost to import it)
And what would you consider true market value?

For example say a defender was 3000 GBP and it was now here in the states with a title and ready to sell. What do you think the "true market value" should be?

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
Deals are out there (there is a somewhat rusty but not terrible 110 with a 300tdi that needs work for 800ukp on ebay uk)
I assume that you are talking about the brown one ebay ID 290329284940? It also started life as a petrol motor and now has a diesel in it so that makes it a little more risky getting it imported.

NOT SO GOOD POINTS
Stuck in gear & therefore not driveable.
Turbo worn and will need replacing soon.
Thermostat needs replacing.
Hole in the o/s front outrigger - see picture.
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Old July 14th, 2009, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas
And what would you consider true market value?

For example say a defender was 3000 GBP and it was now here in the states with a title and ready to sell. What do you think the "true market value" should be?

Follow-up Post:



I assume that you are talking about the brown one ebay ID 290329284940? It also started life as a petrol motor and now has a diesel in it so that makes it a little more risky getting it imported.

NOT SO GOOD POINTS
Stuck in gear & therefore not driveable.
Turbo worn and will need replacing soon.
Thermostat needs replacing.
Hole in the o/s front outrigger - see picture.
TMV should be 3000 quid plus importing fees, its BS you get a car that you buy blind for similar prices to a NAS 90.
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  #6  
Old July 14th, 2009, 06:16 PM
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Well, I have not seen an original 1983 or 1984 110 sell for the same price as a NAS 110 maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of the cost of a NAS 110.

The import 90's that I have seen sold go for less than a NAS in the same condition. For example you can find a basket case NAS 90 for 12 - 14K or a decent 83 / 84 import for that price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
TMV should be 3000 quid plus importing fees, its BS you get a car that you buy blind for similar prices to a NAS 90.
I have no issue with someone importing a defender and marking it up to cover their time, effort and the risk they take importing it. It is silly to expect someone to go through that and risk their money and not make a a profit if that is the reason they imported it.

If you want one for exactly what it would cost to import it then import one yourself

FYI, I purchased one in the UK for myself and it is a fair amount of time, moeny, effort and stress. For example I am on my 4th trip to the DMV and still do not have plates, my 90 was lost for a week at the port, I sent a large amount of money to someone in the UK for a 90 that I had only seen pictures of in hopes that they were not a scammer.
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  #7  
Old July 14th, 2009, 07:55 PM
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Dave I'm pretty sure she wasn't lost. Just didn't get off @ the right bus stop-but no one with that famous Dutch shipping line is admitting such.
What's the problem with Colorado and your registration ?
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Old July 14th, 2009, 09:05 PM
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Well lets see....

1st trip

Arrived at the DMV with my paper work (nicely prepared by you in the folder THANKS!). Told the DMV clerk what I was trying to do, he had no idea how to do it and had to go find a book to help him. He looked at my paper work and said that I did not have the proper entry summary form CBP 7501. I pointed out the document to him and he said that it did not have document CBP 7501 and he could not accept it even though it looked like the correct document. I asked him to look over all of my papers and let me know if there was anything else that I needed for my next trip. He looked it all over and said everything else looked in order.

I went home and downloaded the form CBP 7501, verified that I had the proper form. It appears that it had been photo copied and the bottom with the form number cut off. Since they accept photo copies I simply added the form number to the bottom of my already correct form.

2nd trip

Arrived at DMV with all of the proper documents as verified by the last DMV clerk. Handed my documents to the clerk, they looked at them and informed me that my V5 registration was expired and I would have to get a new one (V5 does not expire as far as I know). I asked the clerk why they feel it is expired and she said it is stamped April 16th 2009 and it is May so it is expired. I explained that this was the stamp from when it was imported and even backed that up with other documents stamped that day. She said that she could not make that call and that the Supervisor had already gone home for the day and I would have to come back and talk with her.

3rd trip

Arrived with all documents... Asked for supervisor. Went to supervisor desk and explained what was going on. Supervisor looked at V5 document and said that it is NOT expired and that was just the date that it was imported and that I could get my title / plates. As she started to process the documents she said that she could not process it due to the fact that my bill of sale was a faxed copy and not the original inked document and I would need to go back and have the seller sign a copy. I was upset at this point as I had made several trips and asked her to look at the paperwork and let me know if there was anything else that would stop me from getting my title and plates. She said that if I bring a inked copy of the bill of sale I would be good to go.

4th trip

Arrived at DMV all paperwork in hand including an inked copy of the bill of sale, asked for supervisor. Went to supervisors desk, handed over paper work, she asks me to see my emissions inspection I explained that I did not have one since Larimer county does not require emissions tests and she did not mention it when I had asked her to look everything over last time. She explained that since it is a diesel that it will require a 1 time emission test since it is over 25 years old and that I will have to come back. I asked her if I could get the title processed as that should not require an emissions test and she said that she could do that and give me a temp tag so I could go get it tested

Title completion notice arrived in the mail today so I need to go get my emissions test and pick up my tags and title Hopefully they do not jerk me around when I go in

Loveland is a very small town and I am sure that they do not do this often (if ever) and most of the time they are competent and helpful so I do not hold anything against them.
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  #9  
Old July 14th, 2009, 09:53 PM
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Photo copies are what they hand me @ the customs house so I have been using same. Sorry it caused you some heart ache in Colorado.
My personal truck was owned by a woman who had a hyphenated last name and it took up more than one line of the V5. The motor vehicles clerk told me I needed to send it back to the Uk and have the other person sign the V5. I knew it was pointless to argue and went home and tried a different motor vehicles location the next day where I was caused no further angina and I was in and out in 20 mins.

John sorry to step on your thread. Both of the Daves responding to your original question above are people who bought trucks sight unseeen from sellers in the UK. One was even off-shore on a barrier Island. They both took huge financial risk in their endeavor to own their dream truck. While neither of them wants to sell they would certainly be entitled to a proffit after the financial exposure/risk they took with the purchase/transport with in the Uk and ocean shipment. One of the trucks was actually purchased before it was legal to import and then the buyer paid to have it stored for the better part of a year outside of London. I handled the importation and collection of both trucks and can tell you they were both very nice solid trucks with original drive trains.
You feel a truck is worth 3000gbp plus shipping and thats it, I think they both tried to gently say you are way off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
TMV should be 3000 quid plus importing fees, its BS you get a car that you buy blind for similar prices to a NAS 90.
I think you are refering to a truck in the Uk for that price ? If its stateside why would buying that be any more "blind" than an NAS model ? The reality is these older Land Rovers are still quite sought after by both Brits and other countries throughout Northern Europe as they have an annual "road tax" there. That tax is considerably less in many countries like Holland on trucks over 20 yrs old. If you take the time to investigate you will find many of the early 110's and 90's end up headed to Holland and Switzerland for this reason. I would suggest (like Dave Lucas) that you will have to attempt to find, pay for (without getting ripped off), transport to the docks ( not cheap in a country where fuel is over $10 a gallon and these trucks are usually many hours away from Southampton), book shipment, pay for shipment, run the risk of shipping damage (not covered unless you buy a prohibitively expensive insurance policy-a cheaper policy is available but only covers you in the event the ship sinks/collecting on damage claims is burden of proof on you) and import one, paying 2.5% duty and 6.5% tax or higher depending on your state, on your own. If after that experience you still feel that a row truck is worth 3k + shipping on these shores I would ask what you do for a living ? Does it have anything remotely to do with a capitalist economic system ?
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  #10  
Old July 14th, 2009, 09:59 PM
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Bah, now you are just whining. Buying "blind" is what I and others have done. For you to buy one in the US, you are free to go and examine or have a trusted internet chum go and do so for you. Much easier than dealing with unknowns on the other side of the pond. And why on earth would someone bring a car over and then sell it to you for the same price they paid? I want some of what you are smoking.

Anyway. Yes, there are some that are asking high prices. Some are worth it, others perhaps not. We all have the same pool of UK trucks to choose from. Do some homework and see what you can find. If you stick to it you might just find that Tdi dream wagon!




Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
TMV should be 3000 quid plus importing fees, its BS you get a car that you buy blind for similar prices to a NAS 90.
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Old July 14th, 2009, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching
Buying "blind" is what I and others have done. For you to buy one in the US, you are free to go and examine or have a trusted internet chum go and do so for you. Much easier than dealing with unknowns on the other side of the pond.
Exactly, not to mention that US sellers post better photos, will answer questions / requests for additional photos and not to you to "go take a piss" becuase they do not like dealing with us yanks.

Customer service / social skills are rare in the UK from what I have seen.

It took me 7 months of looking to find mine checking a half dozen sites per day and having a dozen defenders sold out from under me by people offering higher amounts.
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Old July 14th, 2009, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching
John
It's a supply and demand situation. If you think you can do better than what is being offered than as a rule, you have to do it yourself. Unless you are on the ground over in the UK or elsewhere, there is some risk involved. IMO the prices have already dropped from waht was being asked in the first wave of legal 83 imports. From what I have seen, a good US legal truck in the UK will double in value if it falls into the hands of a reseller. If you want an upgraded motor and drivetrain then the value again goes up accordingly. I have only brought in one truck versus others who have done many more but I look at the listings more often than I am willing to admit. You are not very likely to find a nice truck with a solid backbone and a modern (read tdi) engine for 3k GBP. If you do, grab it and sort out the details later. And do it now becuae the pound is going back up. And there are plenty of helpful folks on here with lots of importation experience who will help you.
That doubling in value, when will it go away? P.S. thanks for all the answers i understand the situation and i guess i have a too strong of an opinion on the subject.
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Old July 14th, 2009, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
That doubling in value, when will it go away?
If / when people stop paying double the price?

I doubt that will ever happen as some people feel that the extra $ is worth not having the risk, hassle, effort and time.

If anything as NAS prices go back up I think it will push some NAS buyers out of the market and they will start looking at the less expensive imports.
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Old July 14th, 2009, 11:25 PM
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One more thing, I think a good landy will double in value of a dealer gets it regardless of the market. That said, I think you will see drop in prices as legal US imports become more common. Based on casual observation it has been that way for every LR model as it becomes legal to import. I remember some of the first few 101 FC's selling for 18k US when they were 2500GBP in the UK. Of course that just means supply is increasing and demand is down which means less folks doing the work to bring them in. And with the lower value the only way to make a buck is to out-sheist the competition with the end result being that there is no change for the US buyer and the best you can do is make an educated purchase and hope you don't get burned. Or go on a vacation to the UK and have a chassis crawl or three. Trouble is that narrows your time to find one by a large margin. I spent about 6 months looking.

What I want to know is when the insaaaaaane prices for NAS trucks are going to finally dry up and blow away. I'm guessing around 2018 when all 93 110's become legal to import...

$10k+ US for a burned, rusted, crash-damaged hulk on wheels, with a salvage title. Makes the UK/ROW prices look a bit more enticing if you ask me. But hell what do I know.
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Old July 15th, 2009, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland 110
Photo copies are what they hand me @ the customs house so I have been using same. Sorry it caused you some heart ache in Colorado.
Trust me you have nothing to be sorry for... Well other than the crappy weather while I was in MD

It is all just part of the process and I will know that much more when I get the next one
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Old July 15th, 2009, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching
One more thing, I think a good landy will double in value of a dealer gets it regardless of the market. That said, I think you will see drop in prices as legal US imports become more common. Based on casual observation it has been that way for every LR model as it becomes legal to import. I remember some of the first few 101 FC's selling for 18k US when they were 2500GBP in the UK. Of course that just means supply is increasing and demand is down which means less folks doing the work to bring them in. And with the lower value the only way to make a buck is to out-sheist the competition with the end result being that there is no change for the US buyer and the best you can do is make an educated purchase and hope you don't get burned. Or go on a vacation to the UK and have a chassis crawl or three. Trouble is that narrows your time to find one by a large margin. I spent about 6 months looking.

What I want to know is when the insaaaaaane prices for NAS trucks are going to finally dry up and blow away. I'm guessing around 2018 when all 93 110's become legal to import...

$10k+ US for a burned, rusted, crash-damaged hulk on wheels, with a salvage title. Makes the UK/ROW prices look a bit more enticing if you ask me. But hell what do I know.
ST's probably will hold their value the longest because of only around 6000 ever produced, SW's will probably drop first.
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Old July 15th, 2009, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
ST's probably will hold their value the longest because of only around 6000 ever produced, SW's will probably drop first.
Agreed. NAS STs will hold their value the best. I think NAS 110s may begin to fall now that SD is making cages again. I don't think it will ever equalize, but a rebuilt ROW truck is 10x better than a stock NAS 110 which was not that great to begin with.
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Old July 15th, 2009, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas
Well lets see....
LOL. Sounds like my experience in Colorado Springs. I ended up playing DMV roulette and went to various offices until I got the result I wanted. First there were Bill of Sale problems (third party sale! Post bonds! BS). Next, "Expired V5". I reasoned with them and told them it doesn't expire. I got the supervisor involved and they had just about every DMV reg book opened up by the time we were done. They acquiesced and sent in my paperwork to the state anyway, but told me me that it may get kicked back. Didn't happen. I got my title. The whole process was a bit stressful and had me fearful that I'd purchased a $14k lawn ornament.

The only thing I'm not clear on is the diesel smog dude said the test would have to be done every year. Not sure how that works since I have 5 year plates...
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Old July 15th, 2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfD90
The only thing I'm not clear on is the diesel smog dude said the test would have to be done every year. Not sure how that works since I have 5 year plates...
Dude!

When I got my collector plates they told me I'd have to pass an emission test for the first set of plates but that I would never have to have another one. Colorado for ya
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Old July 15th, 2009, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
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When I got my collector plates they told me I'd have to pass an emission test for the first set of plates but that I would never have to have another one. Colorado for ya
Yah, that's my understanding as well. That's how it worked when I had my old Datsun Roadster. Didn't know if it was different for a diesel though...
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