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  #81  
Old November 27th, 2011, 10:24 PM
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George
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
I should never have started with you since you know so much and it is hard to pull one over on you. I really only started this debate with you based the fact that the green truck would never in a million years be worth what the black one is worth and when it comes to collectability (is that even a word) the ST is always the better bet. Daily drivers and trucks that are used and abused really don't count for this argument.
This is your passionate opinion rather the truth of whats is really going on. I thought the same at first until I realized how many more NAS ST there are over the NAS SW. And that Yellow 94 ST I used for reference can be seen off eBay it no where close to abused in fact it is very nice shape with only 94k miles and can be had for 23k obo. Look at it and see for your self.


Quote:
I would disagree that when they made the cage they did not take looks into account. You are clueless to how much work went into it and how hard it is to make something like this. You talk about soft tops that are newer than the NAS truck There has been only one official soft top since and that is the SVX truck. It was made in 2008. There was also a special edition for the middle east but it was made after 2008 and is essentially a SVX. The SVX is a nice truck but that has more to do with the fact it is a new puma and not a soft top. In fact the cage on that truck is a huge downgrade. If you ever read reviews, the styling is very polarized. People either love it or hate it. The top leaks and it is much harder to put on than the NAS top. Again all it is is bent metal which can be reproduced. You might be hung up on how pretty the new dash is and the hood but as far as a soft top it is a downgrade.
Please tell me exactly how much work went into it since it seems like you were there coordinating the cage design. Of coarse they are going to make a cage of this type as pleasing as they can with the "mystical" rare foam arounding It's a roll cage, not a venetian tapestry.

Cool site thanks!

------ Follow up post added November 27th, 2011 07:38 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
Nothing is impossible but the cages are different and that is the point. I didn't even mention that the NAS truck came with no rear bulkhead. I guess you can buy a truck set up that way or leave it in. In the end the ST cage available now is different and more cosmetic and not as safe as the NAS one. When you look you need to take into account what is attached to the frame.
Many trucks that go ST in the UK or else wear do it with this same cage. Also is not the NAS cage made also by ST? I doubt they built these to a lesser quality.

Quote:
The recaros aren't part of the package of parts you can't buy due to being SVX exclusive. I think it is good you didn't get them. The would be pure ghetto in your truck.
I was going to build a road coarse Defender with them to break some track records. Hehe it was for my truck, I was going to get them to offer to others that might want them. I may check and see what other SVX items I can get from him.

Quote:
I have no doubt the 4.0 is better than the 3.9 but just so it is clear I hope you know that is like making the comparison between old dog shit and fresh dog shit. Sure one is all moist and fresh from the dog's anus, while the other is dry and probably white, but in the end they are both still shit.
Ok this dog defection fetish analogy I won't respond to but whatever helps you cope with the truth is fine by me. Im always here for you and can set up a hotline to call me on if you do feel insecure and need someone to talk to.
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  #82  
Old November 27th, 2011, 10:43 PM
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barry f
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I wouldn't know about tapestries. I stopped caring about them when they gave me my college diploma. I just don't think you understand the R&D that went into making the cage or why since there are no molds it is special and collectable.

Here are some pictures since you don't understand words:
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...safety+devices

As for the 94 yellow truck. It is a high mileage 94 yellow soft top. Mileage and year drive the price down. It isn't a low miles 97 st in black. Your comparisons are way off.

When it comes down to it black 97s will always be worth more than green 97s soft tops or hard tops of the same condition.

The owner of the black truck probably figured he saw big money for the black so he might as well go for gold with the green and yellow (eventually). Had he know the market, he would have started with green (common), went to yellow, and finally went to black.
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  #83  
Old November 27th, 2011, 10:53 PM
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George
1997 D90 SW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
I love how when people argue with you, you change your argument. Suddenly going from a ST to SW you are mentioning a pro shop doing it with multiple people at once. Last time I checked this isn't Nascar, unless something is big and heavy or we are talking an ECR restoration, there aren't multiple people working on a truck. It is a huge pain but since you experience is limited to the green truck your wouldn't know that.
You mean SW to ST, go back and read. That SW that sold for 46k the owner mentioned that in the listing even say he can remove it in a matter of hours. Go read it.

Quote:
You on the one hand only want to talk NAS but then when we say just call it conniston wagon you get upset we don't mention the white roof. All the wagons have white tops so get over it.
What upset? Please don't make mountains out of mole hills.

Quote:
As for that 46k truck, I would hardly call it a mish mash nor would Mike on the board who built it. It is a ROW wagon that was restored hence the price. If someone bidding wants to make it a soft top that truck can't be brought into the argument.
The term mish mash isn't meant in a bad way nor did I know who the seller was. It mentioned the truck is in Europe so I though it was someone overseas. It's just describing that it was built with various Defender sub parts of different variates.


Quote:
I hate to even ask but I would like Keith to chime in. He represents Copley. I am sure he can tell you the black will always be worth more than the green.
This would be great! I didn't know he was a member here.
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  #84  
Old November 27th, 2011, 11:04 PM
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barry f
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From the ebay posting:

Quote:
Q: Is it a convertible? Nov-18-11
A: Thanks for your interest. Please note it is a stationwagon as mentioned in the description, however as with every Defender, the roof and sidepanels can be unbolted in a couple of hours. I would be happy to answer anymore questions you might have. thanks, Michael
This does not take into account putting the cage on. This truck isn't an NAS so if you were going to add the cage you would have to start cutting holes and bolting to the frame. On this truck it is going to take even longer. Just proves you have no clue.

We can just end this. I agree the green 97 is a much more desirable truck than the black 97. The value is only going to go up. The guy is lucky he was able to dump the black one when he did. I bet he told the new buyer painting it green would be easy and that is the only reason it sold.
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  #85  
Old November 27th, 2011, 11:37 PM
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George
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[QUOTE=specops1526;312627]Ok, I'm glad you have opinions that seem to be quite subjective but just because Copley only has 2 SWs doesn't mean they are super rare. You do understand that inventory fluctuates, don't you? Also, take a look at the Green truck (yes, the one with the white roof), it has a bunch of accessories including the SD rack. My guess is that's the reasoning for the higher pricing. Like I said, you can't just compare trucks based on year and mileage. [/CODE]

Obviously there are much less NAS SW which of coarse there will be less of them for dealers to also buy from. The point is there are less of them for sale and with good reason since less were sold. Ok take off the accessories and they both would then be comparable in price. My point is p4p they very comparable when the year miles and shape are similar.

Quote:
So I said a couple of hours when referencing the conversion process and you actually said a few. Big deal, either way it's not going to take a couple of hours or even a few. You should try taking the roof off of your truck and let us know how long it takes. Then factor in putting an ST cage on and add up your hours. Your reference to River Mike's SW and the random question about making it a convertible has no relevance to this discussion. I hope you understand that, right? If not, I would probably refrain from making statements you can't back up from experience.
Mike is obviously a very skilled person and from his work and when he wrote that I had no reason not to believe that what he is saying is not true. If you don't that's fine. I was referring only to removing the roof!

Quote:
Again with the White roof thing. I highly doubt anyone, new or old here, cares about your opinion of the color combo. Yes, white roofs on Defenders look good but who really cares. You do realize that the white roof has been a Land Rover thing for years, right? I won't even give you the history as to why they do it since I'm sure you already know. We're also all very happy that you're in love with your Conniston truck and that it's one of 340 made in '97. Congratulations.
Im just proud of having it and love the color combo as you can tell and feel more complete when i mentioned it hehe along with the other reason I mentioned before.


Quote:
Anyway, making statements, that you believe are facts before doing any prior research, doesn't give you much credibility. You could learn a little if you just listened from those who have more experience and knowledge than you rather than claiming they know nothing. I guarantee that most of the people who have posted to this thread have a lot more knowledge about Defenders than you, except when it comes to steering wheels, of course.
Stop exaggerating and copying my own words. I never claimed someone knows nothing, this is not true so please don't accuse me of it. I don't appreciate that at all and its not nice. Im not a wall, of coarse I listened when someonthing is relevant and is truthful with merit. If someone wants to believe that only they are correct and the other person is wrong even if they have proof right in front of them or worse if they can't stand to be proven wrong then they have an issue not me. There have been a lot of guarantees thrown around on this thread. I never had so many faith filled guarantees
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  #86  
Old November 27th, 2011, 11:52 PM
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Shawn Palmer
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D-Pilot,
You should give us super good deals on steering wheels for reading through all this. LOL!
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  #87  
Old November 28th, 2011, 12:25 AM
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George
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnpalmer View Post
D-Pilot,
You should give us super good deals on steering wheels for reading through all this. LOL!
Haha the funny thing is these bullys are shoving and pushing and trying to dig holes for me to fall into here and I have already communicated with the seller of the stellar ST & SW! Sometimes people can be hard headed and closed minded even when the simple truth is right in front of them. He is a very nice guy and left me a number to speak with him. Sale is pending which may also be for a record amount for a orignal Defender but not sure what the record is for an orignal Defender if one has sold for 95k+? I don't know the exact amount yet but it was more then the black ST so far. Apparently the buyer is "some guy who owns a water company back easy" in the sellers words. I will post an official response once I speak with him further.

PM me if your looking for nice wheel. I just got a few very nice wheels that are near new and you would not have known that they were even used if I had not mentioned so essentially they are still new. Maybe you might like one of those since it will be cheaper then the "brand new" ones.

------ Follow up post added November 27th, 2011 09:39 PM ------

[QUOTE=bjf;312789]From the ebay posting:



Quote:
This does not take into account putting the cage on. This truck isn't an NAS so if you were going to add the cage you would have to start cutting holes and bolting to the frame. On this truck it is going to take even longer. Just proves you have no clue.
I had only talked about taking the roof off in that time so don't ad to it please!

Quote:
]We can just end this. I agree the green 97 is a much more desirable truck than the black 97. The value is only going to go up. The guy is lucky he was able to dump the black one when he did. I bet he told the new buyer painting it green would be easy and that is the only reason it sold.
Not so fast Barry! With all the shenanigans and ST cage distractions among other things, we still haven't reached the climax I would like to find out just how much more the SW sold for first so stay tuned!

------ Follow up post added November 27th, 2011 10:56 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
I wouldn't know about tapestries. I stopped caring about them when they gave me my college diploma. I just don't think you understand the R&D that went into making the cage or why since there are no molds it is special and collectable.

Here are some pictures since you don't understand words:
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...safety+devices
Hehe just so you know I only wanted to irritate you and Brian about the cage because you didn't believe me about the things I was trying to prove. While I didn't know everything in terms of exact details about the difference, but I did look into it right away and saw some of the information on it. I didn't mean to call it gardeners made cage as well lol! I just want to get under your skins and was trying to be a little sneaky and irritating so sorry about that
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  #88  
Old November 28th, 2011, 09:25 AM
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Russell
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Originally Posted by Rugbier View Post
eBay masking of user id
Oops, didn't know that.
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  #89  
Old November 28th, 2011, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
You're not kidding...it's like a ghost town around here. I feel like I'm the only one looking to waste as much time as possible this weekend. Where's Pedro when you need him?

We didn't travel, all my vehicle projects are ether done or awaiting parts, and I had no desire to start my house projects since they'll be weeks long (not days or hours). Jeez!
I know, I think it was you, me, and Barry on the site this weekend. I noticed you tried to go for the record by commenting on everything, as well posting every truck sighting and for sale found. You might just be the new Josh.
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  #90  
Old November 28th, 2011, 10:36 AM
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Jason Lavender
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Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
I know, I think it was you, me, and Barry on the site this weekend. I noticed you tried to go for the record by commenting on everything, as well posting every truck sighting and for sale found. You might just be the new Josh.
I attribute it to sheer boredom rather than trying to achieve a Josh-like status. But I did have 2 sightings in one day, both trucks I had never seen before...so that's gotta count for something!
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  #91  
Old November 28th, 2011, 07:26 PM
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barry f
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Here you go. Straight from Copley:

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Originally Posted by d90boy View Post
black. =) soft-tops always sell for more!
I am sure you will have some nonsense to say back. I can't wait!!!
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  #92  
Old November 29th, 2011, 01:21 AM
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George
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Originally Posted by bjf View Post
Here you go. Straight from Copley:



I am sure you will have some nonsense to say back. I can't wait!!!
Is this from a previous post of his or did you PM, im just wounder only in regards to the time past or present?

Oh stop, I don't post nonsense unless you do as well instigator . There is nothing to say. Everything began when you began.

The seller just emailed me that it will be re listed due to non payment by the buyer.
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  #93  
Old November 29th, 2011, 05:49 AM
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barry f
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He posted it to the watch thread.

I am shocked it didn't sell. Well I am sure there is a line of people willing to pay 95 or more for it. I bet the guy who bought the black one is pissed. If he just waited a few days he could have had the rare conniston with the white roof.
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  #94  
Old November 30th, 2011, 02:08 AM
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Psyched! re-list means 5 more pages of this conversation!!
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  #95  
Old November 30th, 2011, 12:32 PM
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I gave up. I clearly no nothing. It's not like I am on here or looking constantly at every truck for sale for years now. I really like black so I just want it to be one of the most sought after colors. I just hope that my posting to this thread will get people thinking and will cause Horsey's truck to be worth a ton. It has nothing to do with with real world research or even the fact that Copley confirmed that black is a more valuable color. Everyone knows that conniston green with a white top and possibly tapestry rugs is the most valuable color. Of course I am talking about the 97s. They only made like four of them. Just watch, that green one on ebay is going to go through the roof.
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  #96  
Old November 30th, 2011, 12:58 PM
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Plus it has the much improved 4.0 over the sluggish 3.9.
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  #97  
Old November 30th, 2011, 01:18 PM
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I wish my truck had a 4.0. Might e worth converting it and painting it green.
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Are there shocks that I can addjust up and down like my friends LX460? That would be very cool!
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  #98  
Old November 30th, 2011, 01:20 PM
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Not a chance, you still won't have a hardtop with a White roof.
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  #99  
Old November 30th, 2011, 01:29 PM
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It's guys like this that drive my Virginia personal property tax up!
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  #100  
Old November 30th, 2011, 01:35 PM
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Have to agree with BJF:

Black + ST = $$$$$$$$$$
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