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  #21  
Old August 18th, 2015, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Forget about the ICON builds for a moment though, I was just really on the same page with his comments on engineered obsolescence and he made a very articulate case for small niche manufacturing among some real enthusiasts who happen to have the money to pay for over-engineered over-geeked auto stuff.
There are a lot of people doing that already. Personally I think it is stupid, but hey, if you can make a living doing it.

In my design world parts cost $100k a pop, so I really can't relate. It always amazes me that auto makers can build and sell a car for $15k. Anyone can build an expensive car.
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  #22  
Old August 18th, 2015, 08:05 PM
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He does not need to use NAS trucks and really shouldn't. He is just finding excuses as he does not like Rovers. In all the vids on the Rovers he has done, you can see how he really does not like them. You can also see it in the builds he does. He just tacks on expensive stuff for the hell of it.

He is very arrogant about his design skills as well. Sorry, I don't see it. Nothing he does is innovative and design style is below average.
First off - the vid/interview was a really great listen. He does sound pretty arrogant but he has some very interesting thoughts on a lot of things and I enjoy his all around philosophy.

But the LR parts have me scratching my head. He first talks about how the Toyota Land Cruiser is the vehicle people in 3rd world countries use in life or death situations but then says he uses only a handful of Toyota items on his builds? (And they use an aluminum body )

Then talks about how LR uses Toys R Us plastics in various areas that he snubs at and says they had to redo out of CAD aluminum to make it "right"

What if I bash the front of my truck while off road - I can swap the fender in little time and get that Toys R Us plastic piece for about $15. BTW - since LR used a simple headlight a swap to a 7" LED is readily available as are LED turn/parking lights. Are the angles 90*? Nope but it's close enough until the next time it get's bumped. If a vehicle is going to be used off road or in the fields being twisted and such does it really need to be 100% straight?

There are a bunch of WTF areas on Defenders. But I don't see Icon really getting to the them. My main pet peeve is the crud catcher area on the rear cross-member and rear body. I noticed it right off the bat on the 90 and doing battle with it on the 110 tub now. If he is going to do that big rear bumper why didn't they re-engineer the rear crossmember and tie it into the body better?
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  #23  
Old August 18th, 2015, 08:34 PM
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Don, I agree. Especially the last bit about the crud catcher.
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  #24  
Old August 18th, 2015, 09:49 PM
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So....I am the only one that caught the misinformation about 60 Defenders being seized and crushed? Not only is the number of vehicles wrong.....but so is the outcome!

So...where can I send the correct information to get them to post a retraction?
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  #25  
Old August 18th, 2015, 09:52 PM
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So....I am the only one that caught the misinformation about 60 Defenders being seized and crushed? Not only is the number of vehicles wrong.....but so is the outcome.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
His understanding of the seizures was completely wrong.
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  #26  
Old August 18th, 2015, 09:54 PM
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I stand corrected! There are two of us!
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  #27  
Old August 18th, 2015, 10:08 PM
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I stand corrected! There are two of us!
If you want his number I'll give it to you when you come home from vacation. You can give him a call and have a chat... He is actually a really cool guy!
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  #28  
Old August 18th, 2015, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Brewie212 View Post
If you want his number I'll give it to you when you come home from vacation. You can give him a call and have a chat... He is actually a really cool guy!
Vacation....what's a vacation? I may be at the coast with my family, but honestly, I've spent more time behind my computer than in the sun!

Please do sir, I want to make sure that the public record is set straight! No hard feelings on my part, I just hate seeing misinformation tossed around as "truth"!
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  #29  
Old August 18th, 2015, 10:36 PM
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Number sent, let us know what he says
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  #30  
Old August 18th, 2015, 10:56 PM
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What it has shown is the government has done a good job to scare people from importing Defenders. Even this expert car builder is scared to import trucks even though there is zero reason to be scared.
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  #31  
Old August 18th, 2015, 10:58 PM
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What it has shown is the government has done a good job to scare people from importing Defenders. Even this expert car builder is scared to import trucks even though there is zero reason to be scared.
That.
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  #32  
Old August 19th, 2015, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by don View Post
Then talks about how LR uses Toys R Us plastics in various areas that he snubs at and says they had to redo out of CAD aluminum to make it "right" What if I bash the front of my truck while off road - I can swap the fender in little time and get that Toys R Us plastic piece for about $15. BTW - since LR used a simple headlight a swap to a 7" LED is readily available as are LED turn/parking lights. Are the angles 90*? Nope but it's close enough until the next time it get's bumped. If a vehicle is going to be used off road or in the fields being twisted and such does it really need to be 100% straight?
Good points. There are very practical reasons for the Defender being the way it is.

I can't really listen to him droning on for very long about his personal aesthetic philosophy without my bs meter going off. Just because something is made of expensive cnc machined aluminum doesn't make it better.
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  #33  
Old August 19th, 2015, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Good points. There are very practical reasons for the Defender being the way it is. I can't really listen to him droning on for very long about his personal aesthetic philosophy without my bs meter going off. Just because something is made of expensive cnc machined aluminum doesn't make it better.
Expensive grey finishes and uninspired billet design doesn't make something great. I think my love of over-done things is well established, but nothing Icon does strikes me as anything more than being expensively modified with the purpose of demonstrating its expensive modification. It's actually conspicuous consumption and hipster sanctimony disguised as a refined aesthetic.
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  #34  
Old August 19th, 2015, 06:25 AM
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I haven't watched the package, but I can guess what went on in there. Being in the TV/media biz, I can unequivocally say the interview was for no other reason than to sell a product. In that framework, the subject can say ANYTHING they want without regard for fact, truth, or consequence. They can bash, pontificate, hyperbole away to their heart's desire.
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  #35  
Old August 19th, 2015, 08:19 AM
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I say "thank god" he isn't interested in redesigning on a Defender platform and "thank god" JLR isn't predicted to put anything out here remotely close to what we have.
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  #36  
Old August 19th, 2015, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Good points. There are very practical reasons for the Defender being the way it is.

Just because something is made of expensive cnc machined aluminum doesn't make it better.
For obvious reasons I disagree with sentiments like this . I, quite frankly, prefer to do things just once whenever possible. And after years of being annoyed at replacing the same crappy plastic bits over and over again there's certainly things that Rover could have done MUCH better right out of the gate.

Wingtop Vents that crack everytime you lean on them or look at them too long, tdi intake vents that have these tiny plastic prongs on them that are (literally) single-use before they break off, front grille that sags and droops over time, defroster/demister vents that warp in the heat & sun or just plain don't hold their form since they are made from thin plastic, soft-top clips that hold the window crossbar but are also exposed in the load area and subject to the in/out of gear and can't take a hit, cheap plastic door handles, seat-back rubbing strips that I have - literally - never seen one truck that didn't have these broken on them, center dash face plate made from thin metal with shoddy vinyl wrapped on them (and terrible factory config options), "genuine" Land Rover rocker switches of appalling quality that not only don't function but are insanely expensive to replace.....shall I continue ?

But again, obviously I'm biased. However, I am also not a fan of any "bling" just for the sake of bling....I prefer functional and only-one-time-needed (lifetime) upgrades for some of the inferior parts that seem to fail on a regular basis - even if replaced with a brand new "genuine" part. Heck, I can take a dump in a box and mark it "genuine". I will, I've got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, you might wanna think about buying a quality product once and being done with it.
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  #37  
Old August 19th, 2015, 11:31 AM
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no offense intended!

come on lav...we all know your products are the bomb
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  #38  
Old August 19th, 2015, 11:36 AM
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Heck, I can take a dump in a box and mark it "genuine". I will, I've got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, you might wanna think about buying a quality product once and being done with it.

Awww, look at the pretty sale.......You KILLED the sale!
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  #39  
Old August 19th, 2015, 11:40 AM
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You make useful upgraded components where warranted. The ICON Defender just had machined parts for the sake of being expensive. The overall interior layout was worse than stock as far as functionality went and not better looking (IMO).

ICON4X4.COM PRESS
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  #40  
Old August 19th, 2015, 11:41 AM
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Awww, look at the pretty sale.......You KILLED the sale!
Well then I get all excited, I'm like JoJo, the idiot circus boy with a pretty new pet.
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