Hydraulic vs. Electric winch - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 25th, 2013, 06:50 PM
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Jeff Labbé
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Hydraulic vs. Electric winch

I was looking to attach an hydraulic pump to this set-up but, it's not made for that purpose. You might try and succeed, but, if I were you I would by a pto for hydraulic. Check on the web, you'll see..
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  #2  
Old June 25th, 2013, 08:39 PM
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Tony Lawson
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Agree with Jeff. You could attach a pump to this unit. But it'd be simpler to go with the direct pump style PTO.

I wont MAKE any one take the drive shaft, so you can by this and adapt if you want....I was thinking of going that route myself
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  #3  
Old June 25th, 2013, 09:52 PM
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You really do not want to run winch hydraulics off the back of the transfer case. Add a clutch drive pump from the pulleys or even an electric over hydraulic "power pack".
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  #4  
Old June 25th, 2013, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
You really do not want to run winch hydraulics off the back of the transfer case.
Why not? It's not an uncommon setup at all.
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  #5  
Old June 25th, 2013, 11:39 PM
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I'm not an engineer but I think an electric/hydraulic pack is the worst of both worlds.

An all hydraulic winch will not run the battery down so there is no need for the complication and cost of a dual battery system.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
You really do not want to run winch hydraulics off the back of the transfer case. Add a clutch drive pump from the pulleys or even an electric over hydraulic "power pack".
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  #6  
Old June 26th, 2013, 03:15 AM
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shayne young
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I would have to think a hydraulic winch pto off the back of the transfer box would have to be a pain in the butt... In order to run the hydraulic pump the transfer box should be in neutral.. You can't winch and drive at the same time.. The more you need to pull the higher the revs have to be...means winching and then putting in gear to see if you are out... No assisting the winching by driving...
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  #7  
Old June 26th, 2013, 05:39 AM
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No need to assist when you have real pulling power! Hydraulic winch can pull all day long to their maximum pulling power. Not like an electric winch that peaks for a couple of second ! This is completely different.
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  #8  
Old June 26th, 2013, 05:50 AM
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In addition the rpms at the back of the transfer case are not as high as the engine rpm. Pump would produce lower volume of hydraulic.
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  #9  
Old June 26th, 2013, 06:09 AM
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shayne young
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So when you drive your vehicle into a water crossing and suck water in the intake because there was a low spot you didn't see.. (I know... You're perfect and that would never happen to you).. Where's your pulling power then..so you have to pull your truck apart and fix it in the flowing river... No thanks.. I'll just use my electric winch and do it on the bank...and hydraulic winches do lose efficiency when the fluid gets hot vs cool.. And my super winch doesn't peak only for a couple of seconds.. Camel trophy would never have used hydraulic winches..Nuff said..
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  #10  
Old June 26th, 2013, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
So when you drive your vehicle into a water crossing and suck water in the intake because there was a low spot you didn't see..
I would pull out my Capital One smart phone app and push the button that brings me that girl on the motorcycle.
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  #11  
Old June 26th, 2013, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
You can't winch and drive at the same time
If you're winching and powering your wheels at the same time, you're doing it wrong. It's too easy to to dynamically load the the cable (always a bad thing) and it's too easy to spin your wheels further tearing up the ground (a bad thing).
The only reason people drive and winch at the same time is because electric winches just don't have the power for extended enough periods or because they are, in general, too slow.

Quote:
I'll just use my electric winch and do it on the bank...and hydraulic winches do lose efficiency when the fluid gets hot vs cool
That's funny. You say you're going to run your electric winch without the engine running, then talk about hydraulics loosing efficiency when the fluid is hot.
Then there's the fact that electric winches loose their efficiency when they get hot, to the point of burning up the motor. Side by side, you can run a hydraulic for a heck of a lot longer than an electric.

Quote:
Camel trophy would never have used hydraulic winches
I suspect there are three reasons CT used electric, none of which are because of any hydraulic inferiority regarding ability.
Easier to fit.
Cheaper.
CT was demonstrating the vehicles to get people to buy them, that's why they were mostly stock and mainly had options you could buy at the dealer. For most of the vehicles hydraulic winches weren't a dealer option.
Even drowning a vehicle wouldn't have been a real issue on the CT because of the number of vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
In addition the rpms at the back of the transfer case are not as high as the engine rpm. Pump would produce lower volume of hydraulic.
That's the nice thing about hydraulics, choosing the right pump and motor takes care of any speed issues. Plus you get the benefit of safer winching by being able to vary the winch speed easily. Slow when you need it, fast when you need it.
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  #12  
Old June 26th, 2013, 08:15 AM
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find a mechanical winch.
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  #13  
Old June 26th, 2013, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revtor View Post
find a mechanical winch.
I have one. Had 3, but sold two of them.
I've also used hydraulic winches a lot, even though right now I all I have are my Koenig King and electric winches.
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Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
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67 109 6cyl NADA x2
74 Lightweight - The Antichrist
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95 D90 5-speed
97 D1 Automatic
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  #14  
Old June 26th, 2013, 08:56 AM
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I say we move the electric vs hydraulic winch debate to another thread and let this guy sell his PTO on this one.
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  #15  
Old June 26th, 2013, 09:16 AM
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Tom Rowe
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Good idea.
My apologies to the OP.
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Tom Rowe
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Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
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62 88 Regular
67 109 6cyl NADA x2
74 Lightweight - The Antichrist
95 DI 5-speed
95 D90 5-speed
97 D1 Automatic
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  #16  
Old June 26th, 2013, 12:25 PM
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Tony Lawson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antichrist View Post
Good idea.
My apologies to the OP.
no worries. I'm amused as hell. Good morning read.

FWIW - I design electric and mechanical systems for sub-sea applications. I choose hydraulic every day over electric when I can. Efficiencies are pretty much a wash between the two. As has been pointed out - choose the right size pump, and you can get all sorts of power at any design point you want. Bypass when high side of that range. Temp? no. Most hydraulics are designed to run at 150-190F before 'efficiency' is an issue. It's really a case of choosing the right oil viscocity. Above that, and oil breakdown and valve tarnish are the enemy, not efficiency loss. And with synthetics, you can push that pretty hard too. Appropriately sized reservoir is the easiest mitigator.

The NV4500 tranny I have has two PTO ports on the sides, so I'll be adding a hydraulic PTO for my rig eventually. The other advantage is for the same power motor out on the bumper, a hydraulic will be 1/3-1/4 the weight of an electric.

Think industrial equipment/vehicles. There's a reason they are all hydraulic.

Anyhooo

this is a great PTO for a mechanical drive winch/capstan (even LIGHTER out on the bumper) and this really is an OBO deal. I don't need this thing. Make an offer.
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  #17  
Old July 25th, 2013, 05:40 AM
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What I meant is that the drive shaft doesn't clear the steering box if you have a lhd. No problems to send power to the rear but upfront!
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  #18  
Old July 25th, 2013, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDNRover View Post
What I meant is that the drive shaft doesn't clear the steering box if you have a lhd. No problems to send power to the rear but upfront!
This is incorrect.
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  #19  
Old July 25th, 2013, 10:07 AM
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RH PTO needs a RH vehicle? Well that's from my experience...
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  #20  
Old July 25th, 2013, 10:52 AM
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RH PTO needs a RH vehicle? Well that's from my experience...
Appartently this type of PTO works with LHD or RHD.
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