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  #21  
Old September 21st, 2015, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
So in that last picture you posted, you think you would have had any traction from the left rear tire? Pretty sure it would just spin if your locker was disengaged even if it was a totally dry surface.
That last picture, while cross-axle, still had all the wheels on the ground including the left rear and didn't spin at all. However, traction *mostly* is more of a concern when going uphill I've found as loss of traction going downhill never seems to be an issue as gravity is your helper.

But I've been in scenarios where say Galpin is in front of me going up a hill that's rutted. We are running the exact same tires (KM2 255s), and both tackling it open. He would have wheel slippage, I would not. So he'd back down, give it a little more skinny pedal, and go up. Then I'd take the slow & steady and cruise up it...never having a traction issue even if open. Which makes sense because assuming all 4-wheels are on the ground at the same time and you're making contact then there should be no wheel slippage.
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  #22  
Old September 21st, 2015, 09:03 AM
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What has more traction? A tire in the air or a tire touching the ground?

What shock is controlling body roll better? The shock attached to the tire on the ground, or the shock attached to the tire in the air?

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  #23  
Old September 21st, 2015, 09:07 AM
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Honestly just looks like the rear mount broke off but it's so pixelated it's hard to tell
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  #24  
Old September 21st, 2015, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
That last picture, while cross-axle, still had all the wheels on the ground including the left rear and didn't spin at all. However, traction *mostly* is more of a concern when going uphill I've found as loss of traction going downhill never seems to be an issue as gravity is your helper.

But I've been in scenarios where say Galpin is in front of me going up a hill that's rutted. We are running the exact same tires (KM2 255s), and both tackling it open. He would have wheel slippage, I would not. So he'd back down, give it a little more skinny pedal, and go up. Then I'd take the slow & steady and cruise up it...never having a traction issue even if open. Which makes sense because assuming all 4-wheels are on the ground at the same time and you're making contact then there should be no wheel slippage.
Some of us have a longer wheel base than others and slippage isn't a problem, even though all four are in contact with the ground...
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  #25  
Old September 21st, 2015, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Larson View Post
Some of us have a longer wheel base than others and slippage isn't a problem, even though all four are in contact with the ground...
All depends on the scenario...but Galpin & I (and most) are sporting 90s.
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  #26  
Old September 21st, 2015, 09:29 AM
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This topic is debated more than most any other. The theory that as long as the tires are in contact with the ground, equal traction is had- is not correct. The load on each tire varies all the time, and when unloaded but still in contact with the ground, it is just a matter of when the friction coefficient declines enough to allow slippage. This of course is when open.
Conversely, when locked all around, everything touching the ground- or not- is turning at equal speed. The G-wagon has some of the worst articulation, yet comes fully locked, hence its reputation.

On a Rover, you will find most axle/hub/CV damage occurs when one tire looses traction, spins waaaay too fast, then acquires contact again- this can and does shatter parts. Our FT 4WD is a bit of a misnomer... In the end, the dynamics of the overall vehicle is what I believe makes Rovers so good, not just offroad, but on hwy as well.
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  #27  
Old September 21st, 2015, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z.G View Post
Honestly just looks like the rear mount broke off but it's so pixelated it's hard to tell
I was thinking the same thing, that rear shackle does not look connected to the Frame, unless there is something like the old Tereflex Revolver Shackles in play?

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  #28  
Old September 21st, 2015, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovertrader View Post
This topic is debated more than most any other. The theory that as long as the tires are in contact with the ground, equal traction is had- is not correct. The load on each tire varies all the time, and when unloaded but still in contact with the ground, it is just a matter of when the friction coefficient declines enough to allow slippage. This of course is when open.
I didn't say equal traction, just traction . Which, based on my experience, is better than a wheel dangling in the air or limited contact...in which case slippage is guaranteed.
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  #29  
Old September 21st, 2015, 10:14 AM
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Not trying to be a smart ass, but actually trying to make the point of how easy it is to break stuff when one wheel loses traction all together, then re-engages with a suddenness...
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  #30  
Old September 21st, 2015, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovertrader View Post
Not trying to be a smart ass, but actually trying to make the point of how easy it is to break stuff when one wheel loses traction all together, then re-engages with a suddenness...
No, no I'm with you...and been there many an afternoon sitting in the dirt changing a CV on either my truck or Huffs. Which, is honestly why I prefer to take things slow & steady since keeping traction and not "hammering" it seems to keep the breakage at bay (somewhat).

Huff had it down to a 2-hour turnaround as he was "well versed" in breaking them, but that actually went away for the most part once he changed to HD CVs.
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  #31  
Old September 21st, 2015, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Huff had it down to a 2-hour turnaround as he was "well versed" in breaking them, but that actually went away for the most part once he changed to HD CVs.
Is this when the t/c failures began?
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  #32  
Old September 21st, 2015, 11:02 AM
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I think that the parking lot "donuts" are what cause tcase failures!
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  #33  
Old September 21st, 2015, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z.G View Post
Honestly just looks like the rear mount broke off but it's so pixelated it's hard to tell
I'll buy someone a Peruvian Hot Dog if that right rear shackle is connected to anything.
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  #34  
Old September 21st, 2015, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefhuf View Post
I think that the parking lot "donuts" are what cause tcase failures!
Now that was a funny HH. Glad it was preserved with video.
Serious question however. Would assume there is a "designed" pecking order for OEM part failure when being abused beyond original specs. Just a guess here for routine wheeling (although nothing is routine...): axle shafts go first, then drive flange, diff, CVs, driveshaft u-joint, followed by the T/C?
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  #35  
Old September 21st, 2015, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Is this when the t/c failures began?
No way! Honestly, tcase failure was due 100% to this:

- prior owner purchases replacement tcase (no idea why it failed initially, but that's not important)
- prior owner receives "E-suffix" transfer case (which is a later one) that was supposedly rebuilt.
- current owner (me), breaks said tcase...pulls it apart and finds A-Suffix parts inside!!!!

It failed due to very early design LT230 internal components being contained inside of a later box, that one can only assume where just simply used to "rebuild" the tcase (but in all likely hood were "used" parts that were put inside of the "rebuilt" tcase).

When it failed, we were all standing around scratching our heads because it wasn't like I was beating on it to cause a failure...it sort of just "went" when I climbing over the obstacle.
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  #36  
Old September 21st, 2015, 01:32 PM
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The biggest issue with cones is the tippiness.
I ran cones at all 4 corners on my D1. It had great articulation but was pretty tippy in spots. That tippy feeling is from the rear end dislocating and the front not flexing well.
My new D1 build will have retained rears and some kind of swaybar in the back. It will still flex well but will force the front end to work a little harder.

Flexy sexy (on 315/75's) but pretty tippy.
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  #37  
Old September 21st, 2015, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
I'll buy someone a Peruvian Hot Dog if that right rear shackle is connected to anything.
I'm not sure I want to find out what that is, but here are some more pics of the rig in the OP: An expedition truck on portals... - Page 4 - Expedition Portal
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  #38  
Old September 21st, 2015, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Do you prefer zip-ties for Englands setup? I know I don't prefer chasing my springs down a hill .


Haha, that was a fun time at RAW
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  #39  
Old September 21st, 2015, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwollschlager View Post
I'm not sure I want to find out what that is, but here are some more pics of the rig in the OP: An expedition truck on portals... - Page 4 - Expedition Portal
Let me know if you make it to a Brooklyn Chapter Boost Club get together. Your first wiener is on me.
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  #40  
Old September 21st, 2015, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Erik@Lucky8 View Post
Haha, that was a fun time at RAW
Indeed! To answer Lav's question, I would rather have zip ties as spring retainers than dislocation cones.
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