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  #1901  
Old May 2nd, 2015, 01:05 PM
Ignotus
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gene
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Will,

Again thanks for all the effort and updates. In regard to the non filing of charges against the clients; Is is not the assumption(I know) by the gubment that the vehicle is guilty and not the owner and therefore it can be seized. Thus no charges against the owner?
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  #1902  
Old May 2nd, 2015, 02:20 PM
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Wasn't there a paypal set up this, so we can donate to the cause.
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  #1903  
Old May 2nd, 2015, 02:30 PM
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Brian Kandefer
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Let's hold off on donations, I am working on something that will benefit everyone... Especially Will!!!
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  #1904  
Old May 2nd, 2015, 02:47 PM
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Will Hedrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignotus View Post
Will, Again thanks for all the effort and updates. In regard to the non filing of charges against the clients; Is is not the assumption(I know) by the gubment that the vehicle is guilty and not the owner and therefore it can be seized. Thus no charges against the owner?
To be clear, I wasn't speaking of my clients. Rather, I was stating that no charges have ever been filed against the original importer in relation to this case. That being said, the government has stated in writing that my clients are not alleged to have committed any wrongs.

You are correct in so far as you're referencing the legal fiction that takes place in civil asset forfeiture cases. The "legal fiction" is treating the property (i.e., a Land Rover Defender) like it is a person. The Defender is accused by the government to have committed a violation of law. However, the Defender is not afforded the legal safeguards (i.e., Miranda Rights, etc.) that a real person is because......well, it isn't a real living breathing person. The Defender is also presumed guilty until proven innocent, and the owner has the burden of proof, requiring them to prove the vehicle's innocence by a preponderance of the evidence (i.e., more likely than not). Needless to say, the civil asset forfeiture proceeding is highly prejudicial to the Defender and its owner.

All this being said, I find it rather intriguing, and perhaps fitting, that these Defenders are treated as if they were real persons. I mean, let's be honest, some of y'all on here have had more meaningful relationships with your Land Rovers than with real people......am I right?!
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  #1905  
Old May 2nd, 2015, 03:30 PM
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shayne young
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I still have my land rover...but my wife left me...
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  #1906  
Old May 2nd, 2015, 10:14 PM
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Will - civili forfeiture in general has become increasingly controversial and ripe for abuse. Any chance in your mind that this case might help the cause writ large? That would really be something if you were able to strike a blow for liberty and justice while you were saving Rovers.

Don't start wearing your underwear outside your pants though...
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  #1907  
Old May 3rd, 2015, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaco1 View Post
Wasn't there a paypal set up this, so we can donate to the cause.
Hey Tom, it is still there for those interested/willing to contribute: rgknepp@gmail.com and is solely for donations for Will and this case.

Also, Jay still has shirts available, and he would like to see them sold so he can recover both his space and cost- Thanks Jay for helping!!

Shayne- not again?!

Lastly, I have spoken with Brian, and he is up to something for Will. And while I do not know the details yet, I trust his intentions totally, and encourage support for his endeavor!!

As most of you know by now, Will is focusing on this full time. And by full time I mean w/e's in the law library, long nights, etc -as if he was making a huge salary with bonus. But alas, no salary or compensation package, and this is going to continue to be a very long and steep road for him. So, while the venue is of no interest to me, please support him in any way you feel appropriate. Several folks have given monies, and others have contributed tangible goods that have helped him with this endeavor- and we thank you one and all!!
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  #1908  
Old May 4th, 2015, 09:33 AM
Ignotus
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gene
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Danny(Exfed),

A question for you; Can you give any insight as to why a vehicle with a replaced galvanized chassis can not be imported? As these vehicles age many overseas owners are routinely replacing the rusted out painted chassis with galvanized ones. It doesn't alter the overall age of the vehicle and would infact make it safer than having some rusted out framed vehicle hurtling(ha-ha) down the byways.

Thanks and welcome to the forum.
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  #1909  
Old May 4th, 2015, 10:07 AM
the rover shop
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I'll jump in here... Because it now makes it indeterminable of the age and the legality of the vehicle... It could very easily be a stolen vehicle with all the components put onto a new chassis... It's like asking why can't I just change the frame of a gun... The frame IS what makes that gun THAT gun..
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  #1910  
Old May 4th, 2015, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Apples and oranges. It has never been determined that the frame Is the identity of a vehicle. The Toyota frame recall is a good counterpoint to that statement.

-Jeff
Exactly. If you replace a firearm frame you have a different firearm. If you swap out your LR frame for a galvy frame you don't need a new title with a new VIN.
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  #1911  
Old May 4th, 2015, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignotus View Post
Danny(Exfed),

A question for you; Can you give any insight as to why a vehicle with a replaced galvanized chassis can not be imported? As these vehicles age many overseas owners are routinely replacing the rusted out painted chassis with galvanized ones. It doesn't alter the overall age of the vehicle and would infact make it safer than having some rusted out framed vehicle hurtling(ha-ha) down the byways.

Thanks and welcome to the forum.
This isn't the intended thread for that discussion. There's the dedicated "what's legal" thread and others.
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  #1912  
Old May 4th, 2015, 11:21 AM
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Teriann Wakeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willh View Post
You are correct in so far as you're referencing the legal fiction that takes place in civil asset forfeiture cases. The "legal fiction" is treating the property (i.e., a Land Rover Defender) like it is a person.
OK I guess this means that you can import a Defender to Mexico or a more southern country, drive it across the Southern US border, then the Defender person automatically becomes an undocumented alien and is eligible to be be registered in a state that provides driver licenses to undocumented aliens.

Then the worse thing that can happen to the undocumented alien Defender is that it might get shipped to Mexico where it can be driven back across the US southern border which gives the owner more opportunity for off road travel.



BTW I saw Woman in Gold and give the ending a 3 hanky rating. A really good movie.


I do wish there was a way to reverse or modify "civil asset forfeiture". It has been documented that some law enforcement bodies use it as a license to steal. There needs to be some kind of due process of not illegal until proven to be illegal.
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  #1913  
Old May 4th, 2015, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeriAnn View Post
OK I guess this means that you can import a Defender to Mexico or a more southern country, drive it across the Southern US border, then the Defender person automatically becomes an undocumented alien and is eligible to be be registered in a state that provides driver licenses to undocumented aliens.

Then the worse thing that can happen to the undocumented alien Defender is that it might get shipped to Mexico where it can be driven back across the US southern border which gives the owner more opportunity for off road travel.



BTW I saw Woman in Gold and give the ending a 3 hanky rating. A really good movie.


I do wish there was a way to reverse or modify "civil asset forfeiture". It has been documented that some law enforcement bodies use it as a license to steal. There needs to be some kind of due process of not illegal until proven to be illegal.
TeriAnn
I likes your thinking, but why import to Mexico? Buy a new one from Mexico City LR.

My street is full of undocumented aliens (illegals) and they get food stamps to boot.
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  #1914  
Old May 4th, 2015, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by roverman2010 View Post
TeriAnn
I likes your thinking, but why import to Mexico? Buy a new one from Mexico City LR.
Big bucks! From the Mexico City LR dealership page:


Here are the prices for each model Land Rover Defender.

Defender 2014

Version
* Public Price $ USD
90 "SW SE Premium $ 58.900
110 "SW SE Premium $ 65.900

Defender 2015

Version
* Public Price $ USD
90 "SW SE Premium $ 59.900
110 "SW SE Premium $ 66.900

* Prices in US dollars, apply only to cash transactions. Ask about our financing plans in the Land Rover dealer of your choice Information subject to change without notice. If required mós details, please contact your local Jaguar
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  #1915  
Old May 4th, 2015, 11:39 AM
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Luis Constantin
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Originally Posted by roverman2010 View Post
TeriAnn I likes your thinking, but why import to Mexico? Buy a new one from Mexico City LR. My street is full of undocumented aliens (illegals) and they get food stamps to boot.
You're failing to mention free healthcare and free education. Free everything.
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  #1916  
Old May 4th, 2015, 11:41 AM
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Mark Miller
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Look at your tax returns... It AIN't FREE!
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  #1917  
Old May 4th, 2015, 11:44 AM
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Luis Constantin
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Originally Posted by Greenbull View Post
Look at your tax returns... It AIN't FREE!
It doesn't cost the immigrants anything. So it's free to them.
I just failed to mention our involvement. We are the benefactors.
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  #1918  
Old May 4th, 2015, 11:51 AM
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Let's hold off on donations, I am working on something that will benefit everyone... Especially Will!!!
Brewie for president 2016?
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  #1919  
Old May 4th, 2015, 03:36 PM
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Nicely played sir....
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  #1920  
Old May 4th, 2015, 05:43 PM
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That depends on his political leaning/party.



-Jeff
Give in to the dark side Brewie! F' the rebel scum.

Just remember Jajabinx and his Baltimore based Rainbow PUSH attorney are on the wrong side.

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