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  #1321  
Old July 25th, 2014, 07:47 PM
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Why are you sending DHS after me and my truck? Or do you work for DHS and can't figure out where Calgary is located?
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  #1322  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Why are you sending DHS after me and my truck? Or do you work for DHS and can't figure out where Calgary is located?
I wasn't asking where you live. The logic of just because they let something in doesn't mean they can't go back if it shouldn't have gotten through doesn't jive.
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  #1323  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:05 PM
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They must have been given the full VIN which is NOT the same early 80s to 2000.

I can't say how angry this whole situation makes me.
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  #1324  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
I wasn't asking where you live. The logic of just because they let something in doesn't mean they can't go back if it shouldn't have gotten through doesn't jive.
No, that is not what I mean. IF they had the correct documents and knew that they were 24 years and change old and decided that was okay at the port and signed the entry papers, they should not have the right to reverse that decision years later. They need to be held accountable for their actions.
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  #1325  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
I wasn't asking where you live. The logic of just because they let something in doesn't mean they can't go back if it shouldn't have gotten through doesn't jive.
They had a V5 staring them in the face is his point. With the first registration date. They HAD the info, and MADE a decision to let it in.

In fact, the DOT form only states "date of manufacture"...does not specify if they mean year, month/year, or month/day/year. If only year was listed - and only year (at that time) was what they were basing entry on, then I don't see how someone else can be faulted for that (especially 3-4 owners down the line, 2-3 years later).

EPA form does require month/year, but *really* that's only for motor/emissions...and they don't seem to care or want to get involved regardless. So we're looking at DOT/DHS only here.
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  #1326  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
They must have been given the full VIN which is NOT the same early 80s to 2000.

I can't say how angry this whole situation makes me.
If you make gross errors in a complaint that results in a warrant, does the warrant remain valid?
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  #1327  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:17 PM
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My V5(maybe both but for sure one) had a declared date of manufacture on it in addition to the date of first registration. I don't know exactly how the interaction goes. Do they look at the V5 or do they just look at what you have filled out on the forms?

And to another point. There were just the 40 listed on that warrant. Were there other warrants(only asking because the original posts were that there were more than just 40 vehicles)? And what about the "other evidence" not listed to get the vehicles into the hands of the authorities? You lot keep glancing over that very clearly stated part of the warrant. Do all of you spouting how the vehicles must be returned immediately because this is all erroneous know all of the evidence?

For the record, I would love for everybody to get their vehicle back. But acting like this is just over those dates listed in the warrant that clearly states there was more evidence is mind bottling.
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  #1328  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
I wasn't asking where you live. The logic of just because they let something in doesn't mean they can't go back if it shouldn't have gotten through doesn't jive.
I agree with that, but some of these vehicles are now legal for import. Should they not be permitted to stay because they were imported too early?
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  #1329  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
They had a V5 staring them in the face is his point. With the first registration date. They HAD the info, and MADE a decision to let it in.

In fact, the DOT form only states "date of manufacture"...does not specify if they mean year, month/year, or month/day/year. If only year was listed - and only year (at that time) was what they were basing entry on, then I don't see how someone else can be faulted for that (especially 3-4 owners down the line, 2-3 years later).

EPA form does require month/year, but *really* that's only for motor/emissions...and they don't seem to care or want to get involved regardless. So we're looking at DOT/DHS only here.
100% agreement here. People keep talking about these defenders as if they were the same as other illegally obtained substances such as drugs. But there is a big difference.

Drugs and other typically seized goods were smuggled across the boarder. There were not presented to Customs for a ruling on if it is legal to import.

If I import a vehicle and a Customs agent makes a RULING based on the documentation and the vehicle as presented, then they should not be able to go back years later and reverse their RULING.
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  #1330  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
I agree with that, but some of these vehicles are now legal for import. Should they not be permitted to stay because they were imported too early?
Good question. Fairness says they should be given a second chance. But, regulations are not designed to be fair.

And in any event, the specification of the vehicle as imported may be not match the regulations. Therefore it should be excluded.

It all makes me want to know the full story behind that 110 they crushed. On a FOI basis.
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  #1331  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Basically, as I understand it... When these were imported, customs was given the registration information that showed first date of registration, which was between 24 and 25 years and THEY allowed them in. If that is the case, they should not have the right to seize them now.
Damn- @ least John was paying attention. As previously stated if you called US Customs as many did and asked " hey I have a truck I'd like to buy and import and the date of first registration is three months shy of 25yrs and I have no idea when it was actually manufactured do I need to wait ?" The officer would say go ahead, we go by model year. Have had the conversation personally face to face @ Customs House in Baltimore. Several here have called and gotten the same response all over the country over the years and posted that response. This was one of the changes in enforcement I have mentioned, they turned around and started looking for actual dates in late 2012. Mike Smith had posted in the past taht he had been held to the exact date in the past. Just another example of how the agency isn't standard in how the do what they do.
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  #1332  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
My V5(maybe both but for sure one) had a declared date of manufacture on it in addition to the date of first registration. I don't know exactly how the interaction goes. Do they look at the V5 or do they just look at what you have filled out on the forms?

And to another point. There were just the 40 listed on that warrant. Were there other warrants(only asking because the original posts were that there were more than just 40 vehicles)? And what about the "other evidence" not listed to get the vehicles into the hands of the authorities? You lot keep glancing over that very clearly stated part of the warrant. Do all of you spouting how the vehicles must be returned immediately because this is all erroneous know all of the evidence?

For the record, I would love for everybody to get their vehicle back. But acting like this is just over those dates listed in the warrant that clearly states there was more evidence is mind bottling.
The V5's I've seen don't have the manufacture date on them, only the "date of first registration" followed by "date of first registration in the UK". It's one of the reasons we've all needed to go to the Heritage folks to get a build date.

A copy of the V5 (or equivalent registration doc) is required to be submitted to your import agent/broker at the time of import, and this - along with your EPA/DOT forms - are submitted to the Customs folks (before the vehicle even lands in the states, and in may cases before it really even gets on it's originating ship).

I'm not sure on the warrant thing...that's a question for Dr. Will! But I would assume if something doesn't match what was described in the warrant (which is the sole reason they were able to "take" the vehicle in the first place), not sure it matters what else they have behind the scenes (at least for those specific vehicles that were incorrectly listed).
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  #1333  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mack73 View Post
100% agreement here. People keep talking about these defenders as if they were the same as other illegally obtained substances such as drugs. But there is a big difference.

Drugs and other typically seized goods were smuggled across the boarder. There were not presented to Customs for a ruling on if it is legal to import.

If I import a vehicle and a Customs agent makes a RULING based on the documentation and the vehicle as presented, then they should not be able to go back years later and reverse their RULING.
And this is exactly what they have done.
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  #1334  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
The V5's I've seen don't have the manufacture date on them, only the "date of first registration" followed by "date of first registration in the UK". It's one of the reasons we've all needed to go to the Heritage folks to get a build date.

A copy of the V5 (or equivalent registration doc) is required to be submitted to your import agent/broker at the time of import, and this - along with your EPA/DOT forms - are submitted to the Customs folks (before the vehicle even lands in the states, and in may cases before it really even gets on it's originating ship).

I'm not sure on the warrant thing...that's a question for Dr. Will! But I would assume if something doesn't match what was described in the warrant (which is the sole reason they were able to "take" the vehicle in the first place), not sure it matters what else they have behind the scenes.
I know they take it for when you submit it. I had my trucks shipped by the DoD contracted company and I just handed the company everything and they took it all. I have literally no idea what the Customs people do except that I had to get every bit of dirt out of the vehicle and they sprayed the undercarriage for about 45 minutes to ensure all the mud/dirt/grime was off.

If the vehicles get returned won't they just do another warrant with the other evidence and seize them again?
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  #1335  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post

I can't say how angry this whole situation makes me.
I know you to be an articulate man, an attorney to boot- give it a shot.
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  #1336  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:33 PM
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Are you guys not even curious what the other evidence is?
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  #1337  
Old July 25th, 2014, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
Are you guys not even curious what the other evidence is?
I think everyone is curious, but the priority is getting as many trucks back as possible.
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  #1338  
Old July 25th, 2014, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
So they have hundreds of agents doing surveillance and teaming together to seize the vehicles but they can't put an hour or two into properly researching the build and registration dates? All easily done from the comfort of your computer. If I was running this organization I would fire the agents running the case.
This isn't how this worked (I am surmising based off experience). No offense, but nobody on here is difficult to surveil and it isn't 24/7 bounding coverage...the numbers for this aren't all that high nor is the amount of time dedicated to it. Likewise day of the seizure was simply bringing in available hands to help out (which if you were in their shoes reading all the 'come and take it' posturing that permeates this website and you just had a job to do executing a warrant, you would bring some avail agents too).

The frustration at the failure to delve deeply is understandable, but in reality you are probably upset with just a few handling the bulk of the case (who probably read here and if they page back over the years to all the discussions about how to get past customs with something unoriginal have no reason not to cast a wide net).

Just some good for thought for those that don't live in that world.
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  #1339  
Old July 25th, 2014, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
I agree with that, but some of these vehicles are now legal for import. Should they not be permitted to stay because they were imported too early?
Hopefully Will can get a legal precedence set that makes this true. It's the only thing that seems logical to me. The vehicle is "legal" now, and if there was an infraction, it certainly wasn't by the current owner, and the current owner shouldn't be punished. It's not like they bought a kilogram of cocaine and they are trying to say they didn't know it was illegal. They bought an automobile, with a title and registration, from a dealer. Who would even consider that it might be illegal years later?
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  #1340  
Old July 25th, 2014, 10:46 PM
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