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  #941  
Old July 21st, 2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
This is why Bill Larson owns a cave in Costa Rica that is part of a privately owned gated mountain community, with a lake in front of the cave that has fresh water sharks with laser beams on their heads.
OK you're on the list! lol...
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  #942  
Old July 21st, 2014, 01:11 PM
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So what is the big complaint about how this went down? The armed agents seizing the evidence? Or that they didn't need to seize it? Or that the info used to justify the seizure is bogus? I'm slightly confused by this point of what exactly people are pissed about aside from vehicles that people loved being taken away.
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  #943  
Old July 21st, 2014, 01:11 PM
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Mark Miller
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Costa Rica? Isn't that where the DD's grow their coffee beans?
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  #944  
Old July 21st, 2014, 01:14 PM
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mark kellgren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbull View Post
Costa Rica? Isn't that where the DD's grow their coffee beans?
shhhh. Bill doesn't know that DD owns the coffee plantations and sell all their spoiled beans to Starbux. That's an industry secret.
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  #945  
Old July 21st, 2014, 01:21 PM
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Luis Constantin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Ten View Post
I sent in a build date request to the British Motor Industry Heritage Trust/ Heritage Motor Centre on Saturday and got a response today. I didn't expect it so fast. Dear Mr XXXXX Further to your enquiry the build date recorded for chassis number SALLDXXXXXXXXXXXXX is 4th June 1986. Regards Jan Valentino Archive Research
Are they able to research and provide information regarding what number in a limited edition series a vehicle is? Land Rover provided me with the build date with a simple email. I saved $10. But they were not able or didn't want to locate the info beyond that.
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  #946  
Old July 21st, 2014, 01:25 PM
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]-[ @ n $
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Larson View Post
OK you're on the list! lol...
Nah. That slide is for integrated (strategic) Missile Defense; with special emphasis on defense. The graph shows 3 phases of flight for a mid-range ballistic (not guided) missile and the integrated assets used to provide SA to leadership and, hopefully, mitigate the threat(s).

Or so I've been told.

[Now back to your regularly scheduled program.]

Good luck today, Will!
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  #947  
Old July 21st, 2014, 01:36 PM
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Ray Gerber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
So what is the big complaint about how this went down? The armed agents seizing the evidence? Or that they didn't need to seize it? Or that the info used to justify the seizure is bogus? I'm slightly confused by this point of what exactly people are pissed about aside from vehicles that people loved being taken away.
Mark it down, Matt and I on similar sides of an issue. I too am confused about the police state outrage. The term surveillance can mean a lot of things when mentioned in passing, I get the sense folks here are thinking 'The lives of others' meets The Wire. I would bet on someone driving by to confirm/deny address and vehicle.

But really I'm interested in where this has evolved into the destruction of civil liberties...that's a pretty serious thing.

Caveat: I'm part of the 'man' so my perception is severely skewed
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  #948  
Old July 21st, 2014, 01:40 PM
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Kevin Le Messurier-Girlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbull View Post
Costa Rica? Isn't that where the DD's grow their coffee beans?
Land Rover Cafe (Coffee) comes from Costa Rica and very good it was too. Not sure if they are still doing it though.
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  #949  
Old July 21st, 2014, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ]-[ @ n $ View Post
Nah. That slide is for integrated (strategic) Missile Defense; with special emphasis on defense. The graph shows 3 phases of flight for a mid-range ballistic (not guided) missile and the integrated assets used to provide SA to leadership and, hopefully, mitigate the threat(s).

Or so I've been told.

[Now back to your regularly scheduled program.]

Good luck today, Will!
that's all I had...well, have fun boyz I'm off for a few fun filled days to good olde Dalton Georgia! Maybe you can get this up to 2K! good luck!!
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  #950  
Old July 21st, 2014, 02:32 PM
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jim pendleton
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My thoughts are with Will today while he goes to bat for us. Best of British !!!


Doug I understand your point here
"Jim,
I think that while I completely understand everyone's incredible need to understand, given the fact that we are fully aware that the agent in charge is following this thread I am going to decline to explain anything further than I already have. We all want the same outcome here and I assure you all Will is working the salient points and has a meeting setup for tomorrow. It is my sincere hope he might be able to share more tomorrow evening.
I guess what I'm saying is Will is on point, and we need to give him the floor space to dance. I truly appreciate an attorney whom I can share everything with including my frustrations and once understood, wants to effect some permanent changes in policy based on the vast gulf behind what the law says and what is being enforced. But that's a secondary goal to these guys and their trucks."

If it is a matter of timing then all in due course.

I am with Ezzzzzzzzz on the idea of the anger associated with the attack on civil liberties for those involved. I knew when there was news of a coordinated seizure to collect evidence that they would have been conducting surveillance prior to their actions. I was angry from the very beginning for those actions. No cooperation just the actions of bullies.

The warrant seems more like a fishing expedition to me. They may have even known of the mistakes in the warrant that will be spelled out at some point. Only using the JLRNA employee as a means to an end. If they find vehicles or components that were stolen while in the UK, in the evidence they have seized, then the actions will become justified.
Just like the police officer that stops a driver for a non working stop lamp, that is actually working. Only to further inquire if the driver is under the influence.
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  #951  
Old July 21st, 2014, 03:03 PM
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John B.
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Not being a lawyer, but if the warrant is in error or issued based on false information, does not any information determined from the result of that warrant become inadmissible? That is what they say on the TV shows...
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  #952  
Old July 21st, 2014, 03:06 PM
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Richard Ordowich
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When is a Land Rover no longer a Land Rover? One of the real life challenges some of us deal with is trying to unambiguously and uniquely identify and define what is a Land Rover or for that matter any "entity" such as a vehicle or person. This may sound like an academic problem but it is a problem some of us work on daily (when not working on our Land Rover). Does a VIN unambiguously identify a Land Rover? From the discussions here there is no definitive answer. Is a Land Rover the sum of its parts? I owned a Shelby Cobra replica car built on a Mustang chassis with Ford crate motor. Try to identify that vehicle! Does a social security number uniquely identify a person? Nope! Is a person a sum of their parts? This may sound trivial but when trying to write laws or run a business this problem is real. And the debate on how to identify an entity has been going since the days of Plato. There are philosophical papers on just this subject even though they did not have Land Rovers back then. What usually occurs is that identification and uniqueness criteria for a vehicle are decided upon by consensus at some point in time. Laws and rules are written based on this consensus. But things change and people start to modify vehicles and themselves (gender) and what seemed suitable at some point in time is no longer suitable. For example in law enforcement there are 7 different classification for gender. So when you are stopped driving your surgically modified Land Rover while in drag, they have to use whatever codes they have at the time which may end up insulting you and your Land Rover! There is no such thing as unambiguous laws and rules. These are written by humans. Humans tend to be ambiguous and inconsistent and frequently irrational. When is a Land Rover not a Land Rover? Try to answer that question!
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  #953  
Old July 21st, 2014, 03:21 PM
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Are you saying your Land Rover had a sex change?

Was a propshaft removal tool used?

Did you send DHS an anonymous "tip"?

I could go on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richord View Post
When is a Land Rover no longer a Land Rover? One of the real life challenges some of us deal with is trying to unambiguously and uniquely identify and define what is a Land Rover or for that matter any "entity" such as a vehicle or person. This may sound like an academic problem but it is a problem some of us work on daily (when not working on our Land Rover). Does a VIN unambiguously identify a Land Rover? From the discussions here there is no definitive answer. Is a Land Rover the sum of its parts? I owned a Shelby Cobra replica car built on a Mustang chassis with Ford crate motor. Try to identify that vehicle! Does a social security number uniquely identify a person? Nope! Is a person a sum of their parts? This may sound trivial but when trying to write laws or run a business this problem is real. And the debate on how to identify an entity has been going since the days of Plato. There are philosophical papers on just this subject even though they did not have Land Rovers back then. What usually occurs is that identification and uniqueness criteria for a vehicle are decided upon by consensus at some point in time. Laws and rules are written based on this consensus. But things change and people start to modify vehicles and themselves (gender) and what seemed suitable at some point in time is no longer suitable. For example in law enforcement there are 7 different classification for gender. So when you are stopped driving your surgically modified Land Rover while in drag, they have to use whatever codes they have at the time which may end up insulting you and your Land Rover! There is no such thing as unambiguous laws and rules. These are written by humans. Humans tend to be ambiguous and inconsistent and frequently irrational. When is a Land Rover not a Land Rover? Try to answer that question!
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  #954  
Old July 21st, 2014, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Larson View Post
that's all I had...well, have fun boyz I'm off for a few fun filled days to good olde Dalton Georgia! Maybe you can get this up to 2K! good luck!!
Dalton GA?! Are you buying a truck load of carpet?
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  #955  
Old July 21st, 2014, 03:24 PM
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^^^wtf???^^^
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  #956  
Old July 21st, 2014, 03:26 PM
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Yeah.

This thread has gone full retard. It should be locked and the key thrown away.


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^^^wtf???^^^
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  #957  
Old July 21st, 2014, 03:29 PM
mack73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richord View Post
When is a Land Rover no longer a Land Rover? One of the real life challenges some of us deal with is trying to unambiguously and uniquely identify and define what is a Land Rover or for that matter any "entity" such as a vehicle or person. This may sound like an academic problem but it is a problem some of us work on daily (when not working on our Land Rover). Does a VIN unambiguously identify a Land Rover? From the discussions here there is no definitive answer. Is a Land Rover the sum of its parts? I owned a Shelby Cobra replica car built on a Mustang chassis with Ford crate motor. Try to identify that vehicle! Does a social security number uniquely identify a person? Nope! Is a person a sum of their parts? This may sound trivial but when trying to write laws or run a business this problem is real. And the debate on how to identify an entity has been going since the days of Plato. There are philosophical papers on just this subject even though they did not have Land Rovers back then. What usually occurs is that identification and uniqueness criteria for a vehicle are decided upon by consensus at some point in time. Laws and rules are written based on this consensus. But things change and people start to modify vehicles and themselves (gender) and what seemed suitable at some point in time is no longer suitable. For example in law enforcement there are 7 different classification for gender. So when you are stopped driving your surgically modified Land Rover while in drag, they have to use whatever codes they have at the time which may end up insulting you and your Land Rover! There is no such thing as unambiguous laws and rules. These are written by humans. Humans tend to be ambiguous and inconsistent and frequently irrational. When is a Land Rover not a Land Rover? Try to answer that question!
Well per the NHTSA opinion letter willh posted, they identify the chassis as the key determining factor.
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  #958  
Old July 21st, 2014, 03:34 PM
richord
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Richard Ordowich
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Ren, my Land Rover still has all its original factory parts which I believe are all male. Although my wife refers to "her" as my mistress
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  #959  
Old July 21st, 2014, 04:40 PM
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Teriann Wakeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Mike I think the focal point is that they consider the chassis to be the vehicle. Changing the body to a new one is fine per dot but changing the chassis under the original body isn't.
What about all the new frames that have been imported into the US to repair older Land Rovers?

Does this mean one could end up with a 2014 80 inch wheelbase Series I???

I have been giving consideration to importing 110 Wolf rolling chassis (Chassis, front & rear axle assemblies, complete suspension, steering arms & tie rods). No body, no engine, no gearbox. Does this mean I can not bring in a rolling chassis because the oldest Wolf Land Rover is not yet 25 years old?

What do they mean the chassis is the vehicle? A lot of vehicles have been reframed over the years. This really confuses me.
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  #960  
Old July 21st, 2014, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Larson View Post
that's all I had...well, have fun boyz I'm off for a few fun filled days to good olde Dalton Georgia! Maybe you can get this up to 2K! good luck!!
Bill,

Safe travels...
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