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  #841  
Old July 20th, 2014, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFKazzaa View Post
It's not clear though, can a 25+ year defender come in with a different engine than originally placed from factory?
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Engines and other driveline components fail. The law isn't that the truck has to have its original drivetrain. The law is that it has to have the same configuration as it was built.
That's why these reports of agents opening hoods and saying engine numbers do no coincide with the vin is absurd. That isn't our law, and was never intended to be. Engine numbers were often never included on registration documents in the 80's in the UK so there is little rationale for the the assumption a thief would file off and stamp another number on a stolen engine.
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  #842  
Old July 20th, 2014, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
Well said, Sir.
Ditto, thanks Doug.
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  #843  
Old July 20th, 2014, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckc4 View Post
I am very sorry for what the owners of the seized rovers are going through.

After reviewing the letter Evilfij directed Will to, and Will posted the link to, I wonder what impact the importation of ROW Rovers as a business has on this situation, based on this bit from the second paragraph of the letter: ....you are "not a vehicle business."....

Have only ROW Land Rovers imported by a "vehicle business" been seized?


Chuck
A business importing vehicles for resale is expected to have more depth of knowledge and typically held to a higher standard than one off imports by enthusiasts who are just dying to have something not available here. Business imports require bonding, personal imports do not.
Vehicles not eligible for entry have been seized @ virtually every port in the US. This thread and the seizure of these trucks who were owned by entities other than the original importer were all imported by a single business.
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  #844  
Old July 20th, 2014, 10:36 AM
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As much as I like to see the info you are posting Will do you think it should be posted where everyone including the other side of the legal action can see it?

Just asking as I would hate to give them more ammo or prep their side for them. I am sure we will all understand if things need to go silent despite our voyeuristic urges .


Thanks for stepping in and helping people in need.
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  #845  
Old July 20th, 2014, 10:38 AM
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date format

re CBP/JLRNA info etc

is it possible that the UK date format got mixed up somewhere, on some of these?

UK gov doc date format day/month/year: US; month/day/year

ie 12/1/86 is the 12th January 1986 in the UK, and the 1st December 1986 in the US.

big difference here.

sorry if this was already mentioned/checked
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  #846  
Old July 20th, 2014, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Benway View Post
re CBP/JLRNA info etc

is it possible that the UK date format got mixed up somewhere, on some of these?

UK gov doc date format day/month/year: US; month/day/year

ie 12/1/86 is the 12th January 1986 in the UK, and the 1st December 1986 in the US.

big difference here.

sorry if this was already mentioned/checked
We are told that the build dates were provided by a team at Land Rover North America......
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  #847  
Old July 20th, 2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
As much as I like to see the info you are posting Will do you think it should be posted where everyone including the other side of the legal action can see it?

Just asking as I would hate to give them more ammo or prep their side for them. I am sure we will all understand if things need to go silent despite our voyeuristic urges .


Thanks for stepping in and helping people in need.
As it stands, NON forum member can view "Your Profile". But EACH forum member change change their settings so that "MEMBERS ONLY" can view their information. You change also change your "status" to "invisible" .
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  #848  
Old July 20th, 2014, 10:52 AM
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The DOT counsel letter has been on the internet for a decade and a half. There are several others, some posted linked in the "whats legal" thread. The problem continues to be that the law and enforcement/practice by CBP are @ odds. That is a common theme and Will is the first atty I have had that conversation with that is willing to pick up the fallen flag and run up the hill with it.
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  #849  
Old July 20th, 2014, 10:58 AM
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Dennis I was questioning posting info 're the case at all as in if it is not posted then no one can see it.

Will is the expert so whatever he choose I trust just wanted to throw it out there as we can feel comfortable and let our guards down around friends not realizing there might be a wolf among the sheep.
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  #850  
Old July 20th, 2014, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
As much as I like to see the info you are posting Will do you think it should be posted where everyone including the other side of the legal action can see it?

Just asking as I would hate to give them more ammo or prep their side for them. I am sure we will all understand if things need to go silent despite our voyeuristic urges .


Thanks for stepping in and helping people in need.
Dave,

Good morning. In answer to your question, I have not posted anything on this forum that I have not already made the US Attorney and DHS agent in charge aware of.

Doug and I met yesterday, and as he stated above and numerous times previously, the DHS does follow this forum. The same agent also remarked to me about how they were watching this thread the day these vehicles were seized. Though this is only my opinion, he actually seemed quite pleased with response this event had caused.

I have been very careful to guard any confidential information from being posted here. I cannot prevent other people from posting, but I will say that there has been an excessive amount of conjecture and errant theories posted about this subject. I will eventually shed some light on this matter, but not until the current litigation is concluded.

If I were to ask anything of the members of this forum, it would be to be mindful of the fact that the Department of Homeland Security is reading your posts. Also bear in mind that DHS conducted surveillance on the vehicle owners in the weeks and months prior to their seizures. I would ask how you would feel if you found out the government had been watching you at home while playing in the front yard with your kids, or watching you at work, or even watching your parents house?

If your goal is to help the individuals who've been effected, then I would ask that you consider posting only when you have something pertinent or helpful to add. Keep theories to yourself. If you're not sure if what you have is pertinent or helpful, then feel free to drop me a PM or send me an email.

And with that said, I would like to take this opportunity to thanks those members who have been helpful behind the scenes in lending a hand with research, expertise, insight, etc.. They deserve to receive some credit too.
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  #851  
Old July 20th, 2014, 11:00 AM
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With respect to a couple of things:
Will has to disclose under discovery anyway, and he is also not posting up everything. He is a savvy enough lawyer to know what he is doing I am sure. If it is public knowledge you can get it too

Business that import also have to declare revenue and gains to that other bastion of federal bureaucratic idiocy. The IRS. Individual sellers rarely do disclose gains made.

Doug knows his stuff plain and simple. Arguing with him is an effort in futility. And you end up looking foolish.

CBP are on this board. Don't fool yourself. Once it is in a public forum...
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  #852  
Old July 20th, 2014, 11:01 AM
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Perfect thanks for jumping into the fire Will!
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  #853  
Old July 20th, 2014, 11:41 AM
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Thanks Will. Perhaps with both of us imparting the same message, it will sink in.
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  #854  
Old July 20th, 2014, 12:08 PM
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Well this is really terrible timing for me to get interested in buying a Defender 110. I found one for sale recently and started digging into the history of imported RHD Defenders then saw this story on car and driver/jalopnik.... my head is spinning. I was about to make an offer and buy the rig this week. Perhaps I shall hold off and see how this all shakes out. This goes way deeper than I'm prepared for atm.
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  #855  
Old July 20th, 2014, 12:08 PM
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News article on the seizures:

https://autos.yahoo.com/news/us-cust...133005490.html

------ Follow up post added July 20th, 2014 11:10 AM ------

News footage from MARCH of this year showing Land Rovers being seized in North Carolina:

http://www.wect.com/story/21791074/f...-investigation
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  #856  
Old July 20th, 2014, 12:27 PM
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Autos.Yahoo Source: Jalopnik

Jalponik Source: This Thread

Also that video is from the seizures from last year. I guess it might start becoming an annual thing in N.C.

Also... I'm currently importing my 110. Beyond possibly having it held up some for a possible thorough search, I'm not worried about it. I did my research and looked for a bone stock rig with original paint. I got offered three and they all checked out with registration, VIN and visuals (video as well). The truck doesn't look brand new and the paint is not as blue as it was but it "should" be solid everywhere it counts. Paint and a lot of the aftermarket stuff is fairly cheap anyway, in the grand scheme of things.


People get enticed by the "Shiny" things; alloys, new paint, and various bling. Don't buy it, get a solid original looking truck that will be a good basis to build on when it arrives stateside. Ex-MOD truck are probably some of the safest to import because they have a ton of paperwork backing up their service and provide a clean slate for a good build, even if you pay a tad more for it.
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  #857  
Old July 20th, 2014, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBullsBollocks View Post
News article on the seizures: https://autos.yahoo.com/news/us-cust...133005490.html ------ Follow up post added July 20th, 2014 11:10 AM ------ News footage from MARCH of this year showing Land Rovers being seized in North Carolina: http://www.wect.com/story/21791074/f...-investigation
Pity you can't get facts right. That seizure is well known here and happened in 2013.
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  #858  
Old July 20th, 2014, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbee View Post
. I did my research and looked for a bone stock rig with original paint. I got offered three and they all checked out with registration, VIN and visuals (video as well). The truck doesn't look brand new and the paint is not as blue as it was but it "should" be solid everywhere it counts. Paint and a lot of the aftermarket stuff is fairly cheap anyway, in the grand scheme of things.
People get enticed by the "Shiny" things; alloys, new paint, and various bling. Don't buy it, get a solid original looking truck that will be a good basis to build on when it arrives stateside. Ex-MOD truck are probably some of the safest to import because they have a ton of paperwork backing up their service and provide a clean slate for a good build, even if you pay a tad more for it.
New paint is 100% legal (which assuming the agent in charge knew this,is poor form to put it in his warrant, no limit to lack of ethics to get a warrant signed I guess), as is new upholstery, new brakes, new tires, new exhaust, brand new engine, brand new transmission etc. As long as they are the original spec/ as built.
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  #859  
Old July 20th, 2014, 12:34 PM
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Understanding the law.

Bit worried about a ref to UK steve being a 'fan' of someone negative on this situation of seized vehicles.UK steve is not biased in anyway towards anyone,Just looking forwards to a positive conclusion to an unhappy situation that you guys in USA are having at present,and would like to understand what is legal and what is not.The Forum is a wonderfull base to see all about this, and i hope everyone can post all things good or bad on the forum for people to see,in a democratic way in a country that is supposed to have a freedom of speech.If the Feds are watching,we should all stick to the law,i am not saying that anyone should break it.Just understand what is allowed in or what is not.If stuff is allowed in,How are people legally allowed to modify it in years to come,or are they always going to be under a threat of seizure? FACTS thats all i reckon should be asked. -it will help importers or potential exporters from UK understand the law.
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  #860  
Old July 20th, 2014, 12:40 PM
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I know paint and new components are legal. New paint can hide a true condition of a vehicle and give CBP more of reason to hold your car and do a in depth search, which costs money. And why replace components when you can upgrade! Hehehe
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