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  #681  
Old July 18th, 2014, 03:19 PM
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Philip Leung
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Angry

Here's what I found on line :

Some 40 Land Rover owners across the U.S. woke up Tuesday morning to police and federal investigators knocking on their doors and demanding they hand over their trucks. Officials say it's part of an ongoing criminal investigation into the illegal importation of Land Rovers into this country, Jalopnik has learned.

But that will likely come as little consolation to the 40 owners of the Land Rover 90s, 110s and Defenders, many of whom contest what federal authorities claim about the legality of their cars.

News of the seizures first appeared on the Land Rover Defender forum Defender Source around 8 a.m. Tuesday, when one user posted to say that the U.S. Department of Homeland Security came to his home at 6:45 a.m. to seize his truck. That user was quickly joined by several others, who said their Land Rovers were confiscated by investigators who came to their homes with federal warrants.

One of them was Danny Harrington, who lives in Albany, New York. Last year he bought a 1983 Land Rover 110 through a friend in New York. He told Jalopnik that police drove around his residence looking for his truck, and then went to his parents' house 10 miles away to find it a house where it wasn't even registered.

"They told me it was illegally imported, and the guy who imported it last year falsified the paperwork on the truck," Harrington said. The investigators came to the house with a list of VIN numbers and said his was on it, and that they were taking it with them.

Curiously, Harrington said police insisted his Land Rover was a year 2000 model. He says that his VIN number definitely goes back to a 1979 to 1984 truck, and not a newer one.

"It's clearly a 1983," he said of his very obviously older project vehicle. "It's not a show truck. It's a mess. It's a work truck."

Vincent Picard, a spokesman for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said authorities believe the cars were unlawfully brought into the U.S.

"ICE Homeland Security Investigations special agents served court-ordered seizure warrants on approximately 40 Land Rovers in various locations around the country," he said in an email. "The seizures are being made pursuant to an ongoing criminal investigation involving the unlawful importation of the vehicles from Great Britain. The Land Rovers, which do not meet federal safety or emission standards, cannot be lawfully operated in the United States."

That was news to Harrington, who says he bought the car legally in New York last year and has a title to prove it. "I don't even know who imported it," he said.
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  #682  
Old July 18th, 2014, 03:22 PM
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It's funny, because it's basically a quote from a link that's quoting this thread.
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  #683  
Old July 18th, 2014, 03:23 PM
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Frank Rafka
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Thanks Will for posting that…it really sheds some light on the actions taken by .GOV
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  #684  
Old July 18th, 2014, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willh View Post
For all your reading pleasure.....
Thoughts on removing Attachment B or redacting peoples' names and addresses?
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  #685  
Old July 18th, 2014, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phreeb View Post
Here's what I found on line :

Some 40 Land Rover owners across the U.S. woke up Tuesday morning to police and federal investigators knocking on their doors and demanding they hand over their trucks. Officials say it's part of an ongoing criminal investigation into the illegal importation of Land Rovers into this country, Jalopnik has learned.

But that will likely come as little consolation to the 40 owners of the Land Rover 90s, 110s and Defenders, many of whom contest what federal authorities claim about the legality of their cars.

News of the seizures first appeared on the Land Rover Defender forum Defender Source around 8 a.m. Tuesday, when one user posted to say that the U.S. Department of Homeland Security came to his home at 6:45 a.m. to seize his truck. That user was quickly joined by several others, who said their Land Rovers were confiscated by investigators who came to their homes with federal warrants.

One of them was Danny Harrington, who lives in Albany, New York. Last year he bought a 1983 Land Rover 110 through a friend in New York. He told Jalopnik that police drove around his residence looking for his truck, and then went to his parents' house 10 miles away to find it a house where it wasn't even registered.

"They told me it was illegally imported, and the guy who imported it last year falsified the paperwork on the truck," Harrington said. The investigators came to the house with a list of VIN numbers and said his was on it, and that they were taking it with them.

Curiously, Harrington said police insisted his Land Rover was a year 2000 model. He says that his VIN number definitely goes back to a 1979 to 1984 truck, and not a newer one.

"It's clearly a 1983," he said of his very obviously older project vehicle. "It's not a show truck. It's a mess. It's a work truck."

Vincent Picard, a spokesman for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said authorities believe the cars were unlawfully brought into the U.S.

"ICE Homeland Security Investigations special agents served court-ordered seizure warrants on approximately 40 Land Rovers in various locations around the country," he said in an email. "The seizures are being made pursuant to an ongoing criminal investigation involving the unlawful importation of the vehicles from Great Britain. The Land Rovers, which do not meet federal safety or emission standards, cannot be lawfully operated in the United States."

That was news to Harrington, who says he bought the car legally in New York last year and has a title to prove it. "I don't even know who imported it," he said.
Its the defender source version of inception ...
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  #686  
Old July 18th, 2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
Thanks Will for posting that…it really sheds some light on the actions taken by .GOV
Definitely does. There are a lot of things not right about that list. Only a couple on that list seem to be legit. They seem to have a pretty good paper trail on a lot of those trucks.
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  #687  
Old July 18th, 2014, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Thoughts on removing Attachment B or redacting peoples' names and addresses?
The case has been unsealed. The Complaint is now public record.

Edit: Document has had Attachment B redacted per request.
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  #688  
Old July 18th, 2014, 03:49 PM
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So looking at the document it seems their main reason is that they were imported before they hit the 25 year mark.

Most of them say 24 years but the information is all over the place for example the first one on the list.

date of first registration as 4/19/1988
Date of production 5/9/1988
Model year claimed 1987

If this is the information provided by Land Rover then how can it be registered before it was produced?

Another thing that looks odd several say 11 or 12 years old when imported but the vins I check against calvin come up as 1983 or 1984. So rover says they were 2000 MY according to the VIN the Calvin tool says 1983 or 1984. I think that 2000 is the year that rover started using A REG again I wonder if that could be confusing things?

SALLDHag7aa193948

Seems a shame to take away peoples defender if we are just talking about a couple of months in many cases
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  #689  
Old July 18th, 2014, 03:51 PM
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Dennis Lynch
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Wow. That's a class act, and one hell of an offer!!!!
Best of luck to all involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willh View Post
OK Gentleman,

I hope I don't regret doing this, but, I've undertaken the task or representing a fellow member (and neighbor) who's 110 was seized yesterday. I am doing so pro bono (i.e., at no charge). I am willing to extend the same courtesy to the other members who have also been effected.

In full disclosure, I am not currently in private practice, but I am a licensed North Carolina attorney employed with the State of North Carolina and a member of the United States District Court of the Eastern District of North Carolina. I have today, been in contact with the Customs and Border Patrol Agent in charge of the seizures and with the US Attorney who is handling the case. Per those conversations, I have assured them both that I will not be sharing their contact information, so please do not ask.

I am willing to speak with you individually about your vehicles. If you would like to speak with me, I request that you email me your particulars first and then allow me to return your calls. Otherwise, this will all get disorderly very quickly.

My email is: will@williamhedricklaw.com

Let it also be clear that I want to see that the right thing is done. If you had a TD5 110 VIN'd as a 1984, I will not be able to help you. I'm doing this because, I've always felt that if positions were switched, I would appreciate someone doing the same for me.

*This offer is only extended to those 40 individuals who were effected by yesterday's seizures and who's warrant indicates a case in the Eastern District of North Carolina.

And with that said.......let the fun begin!
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  #690  
Old July 18th, 2014, 03:59 PM
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Not seeing 160 VIN's on that list.
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  #691  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Z.G View Post
It's funny, because it's basically a quote from a link that's quoting this thread.
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  #692  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:14 PM
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Nevermind it was put back up I thought the mods took it down.... Or the people in black helicopters

Sorry Will I did not know that you were the one who did it to remove the names. You are Awesome!
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  #693  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
Why was the document taken down
It's back up. Redacted to remove Attachment B per request.
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  #694  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Not seeing 160 VIN's on that list.
Probably a miss representation of bullet 18 on page 13 of 19.
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  #695  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
So looking at the document it seems their main reason is that they were imported before they hit the 25 year mark.

Most of them say 24 years but the information is all over the place for example the first one on the list.

date of first registration as 4/19/1988
Date of production 5/9/1988
Model year claimed 1987

If this is the information provided by Land Rover then how can it be registered before it was produced?

Another thing that looks odd several say 11 or 12 years old when imported but the vins I check against calvin come up as 1983 or 1984. So rover says they were 2000 MY according to the VIN the Calvin tool says 1983 or 1984. I think that 2000 is the year that rover started using A REG again I wonder if that could be confusing things?

SALLDHag7aa193948

Seems a shame to take away peoples defender if we are just talking about a couple of months in many cases
This is the point. If the VIN given to the gov claimed it to be a 1987, but it was not actually produced until a year later, something is wrong there. That is the point of this. The VIN on the plate probably does not match the VIN on the frame. That seems to be the crux of the issue with these trucks. If it were legit, there should be uniformity in the progression of year.
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  #696  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:24 PM
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#4 under "Declaration"…

only because I've stayed at a Holiday Day Inn Express once...
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  #697  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:29 PM
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So, according to that list, they claim most of the vehicles were imported a few months before they were allowed and that is the reason for the seizures. Good lord. What a waste of tax payer money.
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  #698  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:32 PM
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So folks know, the English car registration system back then was based on a registration letter. Each August first the registration letter would change.
This created a complete distortion in sales as cars with later registration letters have higher value.
Taking that example someone could have said that with a L reg it's a 1984 but failed to disclose its true date of build was in 1985.
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  #699  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:34 PM
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This is where it pays to not play games. When I asked Uncle Doug about importing my 1988 Hard Top he asked that I check the LR Heritage center for the vehicles info. I went to LR UAE and they gave me a copy of the date of build.... May 25, 1989. I didn't dare try to bring it into the states before 25 years and a day AFTER that build date Had I tried to import it in 2013 would have been 24 years 1 month old and subject to seizure. Seems Aaron didn't give a flip and fudged it in the sworn affidavits as a matter of routine. The TD5s with galvanized chassis is a no-no. LR probably got the 2006 build date for a TD5 frame direct from Richardson's.
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  #700  
Old July 18th, 2014, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
I think that 2000 is the year that rover started using A REG again I wonder if that could be confusing things?

SALLDHag7aa193948

Seems a shame to take away peoples defender if we are just talking about a couple of months in many cases
Incorrect. they went postal town related Number plates. The last of the old reg were used up very quickly every 6 months in order to move to the new system quicker which commenced in the second half of 2001. An explanation.

New Style UK Registrations Explained (E.G. SK54 MPK)

New Style registrations are those which follow the format of a two letter prefix (in the above example the SK), followed by a two digit year identifier (the 54 above) and finally three more letters (MPK).

Year March September
2001 51
2002 02 52
2003 03 53
2004 04 54
2005 05 55
2006 06 56
2007 07 57
2008 08 58
2009 09 59
2010 10 60
2011 11 61
2012 12 62
2013 13 63
2014 14 64
2015 15 65
2016 16 66
2017 17 67
2018 18 68
2019 19 69
2020 20 70
2021 21 71
2022 22 72
2023 23 73
2024 24 74
2025 25 75
2026 26 76
2027 27 77
2028 28 78
2029 29 79
2030 30 80
The two prefix letters of this registration would originally have been used to identify the area of the country in which the registration was issued (in the above example the SK indicates that this registration would have been released in Scotland, most likely from the Edinburgh DVLA Vehicle Registration Office.). As these registrations have an age identifier (the two digits), you can only assign them to vehicles of the same age as the registration or younger. As with all registrations that carry a year identifier you can make your vehicle look as old as you want, but not one day newer. So, for example, the above registration - SK54 MPK - could be assigned to any vehicle first manufactured after 01/09/2004, but you'd be unable to put it on a vehicle that was manufactured before that date as you would be giving the impression that the vehicle was newer than it is.
I hope that helps in the future.
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