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  #541  
Old July 17th, 2014, 01:14 AM
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Bennyuk
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Richard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Please tell us more.
Why can't astronauts visit the sun at night?
Why is there no pudding filling in Yorkshire pudding?
Can any young man grow up and be a queen?
Do all of your countrymen think we are stupid or just the idiots?
Didn't mean any offence old son just the situation over here dictates we are passionate about stoping stolen landys

Anyway you've shattered my dream about sun travel now
There's not normally any pudding filling in a Yorkshire pudding due to me eating it
Belive me plenty of young men grow up to be "queens"
Nope actually we believe you to be a intelligent bunch just susceptible to unscrupulous Land rover dealers .
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  #542  
Old July 17th, 2014, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Rover110 View Post
Posted my opinion and got this as a private message. That seem reasonable? You are the biggest cunt. Why don't you shut the fuck up, or else we'll have to have a rendezvous and I'll knock your teeth so far down your throat that you'll have to drop your pants to chew your food.
I owe a beer to whoever sent the PM to this mother fucker Steve.
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  #543  
Old July 17th, 2014, 02:05 AM
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I've been trawling through the 28 pages (to date) concerning the problems in NC.

Please may I put my thoughts here?

What a frenzy this has caused. Not so much with the owners directly affected by the warrants, but by the people who have bought Defenders that had been imported during the days, when the 25 year loophole was exploited to the extreme.

Thank goodness Willh has stepped in to calm the waters, because in my mind, this could have been a catastrophe leading to the end of the 25 year rule, and therefore, the end to any more Defenders being imported.

This rule is not logical, but people do not want to prod the 'sleeping giant' by going to the press, forming petition groups and generally drawing attention to the fact that Americans can buy a vehicle - be it a Land Rover or any other car - that does not conform to the current US safety standards, through the 25 year rule.

If this rule was abolished, no American could import a 1963 Alfa Romeo Giulietta, a 1972 Rolls Royce Shadow or a 1954 Mercedes Benz 180 and use it in America, not to mention a 1987 Defender.

As I understand it, no reason has been given for the seizures. It might not be connected to non conformity. It might be to do with stolen vehicles or any number of illegalities. At the moment, who knows?

If someone is having sleepless nights about their Defender's conformity, the answer is simple - and we all know it. Put your VIN into somewhere like Calvin (clifton.nl) and see if your truck conforms. If it doesn't, you probably knew it anyway. If someone is worried that it was stolen before it entered America (and I'm talking about UK imports), the answer is simple. The DVLA in the UK are notified by the police to say that a car has been stolen. If you have the UK registration number and the VIN from the original importation papers, you can ask the DVLA via email if your truck is kosha.

During the period that this concerns, ie before 1989, there was no obligation to state the engine number in the original UK 'Title' - even though there was an entry for it. So unless someone has actually contacted the police with an engine number, no one knows if it has been stolen or not.

For the people who have Defenders imported during the 'free for all' days, I think that they should just sit on their hands and wait till this whole thing blows over. I bet that almost every vehicle imported under the 25 year rule will have a skeleton in the boot concerning it's conformity. A Mini might well have had a different engine than original when imported and, if the 'riveted aluminium strip' had been removed from the block, who would know with plunging into the engine casting numbers? In the days when it was cool to fit Corbeau Seats, or disc brakes or straight cut gearboxes - these where not original fitments. The non conformity list is virtually endless.

The US authorities have now well and truly shut the doors on illegal trucks entering the US, and have posted their intentions via Youtube. Nobody likes heavy handed tactics and it's easy to say, not being one of the recent victims, but these guys are just doing their job. Does rattling sabres make this situation better?

The days of imported TD5 powered Defenders etc are over (until 2024!!!), let Willh quietly get on with his job for the people concerned, and let's tone this topic down before you all 'prod the giant' into taking steps that we all might regret.

Thank you for the freedom that allows me to post this.
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  #544  
Old July 17th, 2014, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennyuk View Post
Hello boys benny here from the uk try joining a few uk Land rover owners forums and you can see the extent of the stolen uk land rover market over here . You boys are suffering from a problem that's been going on for quiet some time , naughty people buy a scrap or bad condition 90/110 , then steal a nice later model year defender swop the id from the early scrap truck onto the later nice truck and either sell it In the uk or export it to the USA where poor folk that can't identify a "wrang" vehicle too good pay good money out .... Certain uk police forces have task forces set up for stolen Land rovers and have been investigating the problem what you may find is information from a raid has led to paperwork about stolen cars Being shipped to the states and they have informed your police / FBI ...
Bennyuk,

Appreciate you chipping in here . . . the rest of this is really to the group . . .

I'm a new owner of a 1989 110, have yet to pick it up as it is still getting some work done in the UK. Heritage Certificate is getting processed and a fresh spray (same color), dynamat, headliner (as the original was falling down), carpet and considering retriming seats (current are ripped up in spots). Just saw on this thread that the trucks must be original from the factory. My impression was the engine, chassis, transmission must be the same as the original make (no 300 tdi etc). But can you put retrimmed seats on, not replace the seats mind you.

Appreciate any and all assistance, currently overseas and will return hopefully in the spring with my new 110 ready to roll.
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  #545  
Old July 17th, 2014, 02:09 AM
the rover shop
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shayne young
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If I recall.. The last stats on landy thefts in the UK were that 15 per day are stolen... While that may seem a lot but add into that I think the size of the whole of the uk may be about the size of Florida and Georgia combined..I used to drive from London to the most northern section of England just to go out for the weekend,.. I think it was land rovers and ford transit vans that were the 2 highest stolen.. And most transit vans were stolen to steal land rovers..that's a shoot load of cars and parts going somewhere..
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  #546  
Old July 17th, 2014, 02:12 AM
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Richard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
If Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs would have done their job, or Customs and Border Protection or Immigration and Customs Enforcement would have done their job (yes, that is right we have 2 redundant agencies) then there would not have been a second set of victims on this side of the pond. I highly doubt that any of these truck are headed back. Whether Brits or Yanks, we are all afflicted with the Land Rover curse, and are all part of the same community. We all want the same thing here. To be able to deal with our addiction without being hassled. A double negative doesn't necessarily make make a positive.

-Jeff
Well said old son the problem this side is our agency's are that overloaded things slip through the net ... Or they don't actually give a toss lol but people both sides are suffering ....
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  #547  
Old July 17th, 2014, 02:14 AM
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Richard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
If I recall.. The last stats on landy thefts in the UK were that 15 per day are stolen... While that may seem a lot but add into that I think the size of the whole of the uk may be about the size of Florida and Georgia combined..I used to drive from London to the most northern section of England just to go out for the weekend,.. I think it was land rovers and ford transit vans that were the 2 highest stolen.. And most transit vans were stolen to steal land rovers..that's a shoot load of cars and parts going somewhere..
Yep defender is uks most stolen car either for stripping for parts or for ringing insurance company's are putting pressure on the police and government to stop it

------ Follow up post added July 17th, 2014 01:16 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
You sound like Mexico! Making your problem our problem.

-Jeff
Pmsl
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  #548  
Old July 17th, 2014, 02:18 AM
the rover shop
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shayne young
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I believe that it is not allowed to have any upgrades from what it was when it was delivered new...I.e.. No new installed a/c... Etc etc...but I can't see how re trimming or headliner etc could be a problem... Maybe pushing it a bit if you put recaros or something newer and fancy though..
On another note..did I hear through the grapevine that a large uk parts supplier was being investigated and got raided... I'm not gonna say who I heard it was for fear of being reprimanded for throwing someone under the bus..)
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  #549  
Old July 17th, 2014, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
If Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs would have done their job, or Customs and Border Protection or Immigration and Customs Enforcement would have done their job (yes, that is right we have 2 redundant agencies) then there would not have been a second set of victims on this side of the pond. I highly doubt that any of these truck are headed back. Whether Brits or Yanks, we are all afflicted with the Land Rover curse, and are all part of the same community. We all want the same thing here. To be able to deal with our addiction without being hassled. A double negative doesn't necessarily make make a positive.

-Jeff
For the sake of arguement that could be done; but the approx wait time for your truck would likely extend into the several years range and everyone would be bitching about how the effort to check everything circumvented the need for expeditious shipping in the free market. (Oh, and it would require more government which I get the sense is part of the main problem here).
r-
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  #550  
Old July 17th, 2014, 02:41 AM
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With all due respect Alan, I think you're making a few irresponsible remarks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosbif View Post
when the 25 year loophole was exploited to the extreme.
There is no loophole in the law. The law was written to clearly allow the importation of vehicles that are 25 years old or more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosbif View Post
As I understand it, no reason has been given for the seizures. It might not be connected to non conformity. It might be to do with stolen vehicles or any number of illegalities. At the moment, who knows?
While true, the consensus on this forum, is that the vehicles that were seized all had one common factor: They all had been "touched" by this one dealer in North Carolina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosbif View Post
Put your VIN into somewhere like Calvin (clifton.nl) and see if your truck conforms. If it doesn't, you probably knew it anyway.
Unfortunately, not very helpful, as a few of the suspect vehicles had "legitimate" VINs that would no doubt "check out OK", it's just that they don't actually belong to the vehicles they are on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosbif View Post
The US authorities have now well and truly shut the doors on illegal trucks entering the US, and have posted their intentions via youtube

Care to explain about YouTube, unless of course you are talking about the videos of vehicles being crushed?
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  #551  
Old July 17th, 2014, 03:28 AM
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Just a quick note from another Brit - Not entirely sure if I should introduce myself somewhere else but I just read through this whole thread so here will have to do

All I want to say really is I feel for the guys caught up in this; getting hit by someone else's greed and law-breaking is just plain unfair.

I hope the right people get hammered for this and you all get your trucks back.

Catch everyone later

Joe
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  #552  
Old July 17th, 2014, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
We are currently paying for that to be done, and it isnt. Now you want more time and money to do the same job? You are obviously a government employee.

-Jeff
I'm a student of physics, which tells us that the inspection process at ports is a matter of throughput related to time/space/resources available.

You are not paying for 100% detailed inspection of cargo coming into the US-however quaint a notion that might be.
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  #553  
Old July 17th, 2014, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
interesting that this "1978" is still for sale...and not hiding under a haystack somewhere...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Land-Rover-D...US_Cars_Trucks
How blatant can you get?
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  #554  
Old July 17th, 2014, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
My experience with bringing stuff says otherwise.

-Jeff
I didn't realize your experience was a comprehensive illustration of the nature of detailed screening coming to the US.

I may stand corrected.
r-
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  #555  
Old July 17th, 2014, 05:01 AM
rosbif
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samer0214 View Post
With all due respect Alan, I think you're making a few irresponsible remarks:



There is no loophole in the law. The law was written to clearly allow the importation of vehicles that are 25 years old or more.



While true, the consensus on this forum, is that the vehicles that were seized all had one common factor: They all had been "touched" by this one dealer in North Carolina.



Unfortunately, not very helpful, as a few of the suspect vehicles had "legitimate" VINs that would no doubt "check out OK", it's just that they don't actually belong to the vehicles they are on!




Care to explain about YouTube, unless of course you are talking about the videos of vehicles being crushed?

Hello Sam,

I'm sorry if my post appeared to be irresponsible in parts.

In response to your points.

1) The loophole concerned the non confirmed Land Rovers and other vehicles that might have passed through US Customs unhindered. I realise how that could have been misinterpreted.

2) I understood that there was a focus on a dealer in NC. but I wasn't sure why.

3) Concerning the VIN, this is the only way to identify a Land Rover. If the truck agrees with the VIN, it's 'almost' legitimate. BUT there is one exception which needs to go beyond the VIN, and that is age related parts. With the exception of 'year A', the truck must comply, in build, to parts used to that year. If the authority concerned has a doubt, say about a door panel or a brake system or a dash board etc. They must compare these parts to the original by accessing information elsewhere and taking the appropriate action. The VIN won't give that information. Information supplied to me by the NHTSA indicates that non original engines, transmissions and bodies do not conform. The engine is covered by the VIN as is the transmission, but the body is not (only to its form). So, if you have a Puma body sitting on a TD chassis, this does not conform as far as the US Customs are concerned. If, however, you fit a Puma body to your TD chassis once it's imported, well that's a question for Doug.

4) Yes, I was referring to the crushing.

I had no intention in opening up a well worn argument in my original post. I, and many others, have a vested interest in keeping this 25 year rule from being appraised. Bringing even a hint of rebellious behaviour before the public and the authorities might give vent to the frustration of bureaucracy, but under pressure from the opposing public - What, you can drive a 2 ton vehicle on the road here with no airbags and a front bumper that just keeps coming?!!!! - who knows what can happen?

Sam, I appreciate that you replied to my post. I did not mean it to be in any way irresponsible.

Kindest regards.

Alan.
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  #556  
Old July 17th, 2014, 06:11 AM
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Will Hedrick
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Good morning all,

Well fellas, long night last night. Started returning correspondence before 9pm and ended my last telephone call sometime after 12pm last night. This event has been wide reaching and my contacts included individuals who are not even defendersource.com members.

I cannot share any particulars of my current findings, as all are now covered by attorney-client privilege, but I would like to share that I am in awe of the overwhelming outpouring of support from the members of this community. It is humbling for me personally, and I know that it is appreciated by those who've suffered the loss of their "other family member" most recently.

I expect that I will continue to receive correspondence in the days and weeks to come. Please feel free to pass along my email address if you come in contact with someone who has been effected by this event. For those that missed it in my previous post, my email is:

will@williamhedricklaw.com

Thank you all again for your support!
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  #557  
Old July 17th, 2014, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willh View Post
Good morning all,

Well fellas, long night last night. Started returning correspondence before 9pm and ended my last telephone call sometime after 12pm last night. This event has been wide reaching and my contacts included individuals who are not even defendersource.com members.

I cannot share any particulars of my current findings, as all are now covered by attorney-client privilege, but I would like to share that I am in awe of the overwhelming outpouring of support from the members of this community. It is humbling for me personally, and I know that it is appreciated by those who've suffered the loss of their "other family member" most recently.

I expect that I will continue to receive correspondence in the days and weeks to come. Please feel free to pass along my email address if you come in contact with someone who has been effected by this event. For those that missed it in my previous post, my email is:

will@williamhedricklaw.com

Thank you all again for your support!
Will
This shows what type of person you are. Even though we have never met, I feel honored to be part of a community that you are a part of.
Thanks and regards
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  #558  
Old July 17th, 2014, 06:51 AM
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Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willh View Post
Good morning all,

Well fellas, long night last night. Started returning correspondence before 9pm and ended my last telephone call sometime after 12pm last night. This event has been wide reaching and my contacts included individuals who are not even defendersource.com members.

I cannot share any particulars of my current findings, as all are now covered by attorney-client privilege, but I would like to share that I am in awe of the overwhelming outpouring of support from the members of this community. It is humbling for me personally, and I know that it is appreciated by those who've suffered the loss of their "other family member" most recently.

I expect that I will continue to receive correspondence in the days and weeks to come. Please feel free to pass along my email address if you come in contact with someone who has been effected by this event. For those that missed it in my previous post, my email is:

will@williamhedricklaw.com

Thank you all again for your support!
I just want to say thank you for what you are doing. You are an honorable man.
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  #559  
Old July 17th, 2014, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
I'm a student of physics, which tells us that the inspection process at ports is a matter of throughput related to time/space/resources available.

You are not paying for 100% detailed inspection of cargo coming into the US-however quaint a notion that might be.
Actually Ray Customs has a division called "Advanced Targeting" and they sus out bills of lading and target them for inspection long before arrival. No 100% of what enters the US isn't inspected, but they are fairly shrewd as to what they do inspect. Certain ports like Norfolk have full on shops with lifts where they inspect the vehicles. This practice is self sustaining in that they charge you a huge fee to inspect your vehicles. I have had intensive exams for a container with two vehicles cost $2700.
I often know a shipment is targeted for exam before the ship is halfway across the Atlantic as they show it in their computer system.
They can be truly heartless about it, showing an intensive exam (meaning they will open and unload the container) but do a VACIS exam first (x ray)just to run the bill up.

This is why I stopped using containers a year and a half ago. Everything is ro/ro now, even the non-runners. They inspect them where they sit on the tarmac and fee's are avoided.

I will re-iterate that every single one of the trucks through Wilmington was pulled out of the containers, and gone over with a fine tooth comb by Customs and they charge stiff additional fees for these inspections. Then Dept Of Agriculture did the same looking for dirt, on every one of GB4x4 and Rovers Down East's trucks. The level of scrutiny his imports had to pass was higher than anyone elses @ the time. The UK side thing has always been an issue. I have had trucks pulled off the quay @ Southampton by the Hampshire police for examination prior to export. I have had containers pulled out of the stacks @ Liverpool to be opened and searched prior to loading. If you were dumb enough to try, getting something stolen into the US would be damn hard.

There seem to be a myriad of experts here on VIN swapping. Customs is looking for the little Leyland swirl @ either end of the VIN on these 80's trucks. That stamp would be extremely difficult to fake. Damn near impossible actually. If your truck doesn't have the Leyland logo @ ea end of the VIN on the chassis........

As far as heritage certificates go, you guys have way over noodled this. I use the Motor Heritage Museum regularly as does US Customs. You don't need a damn heritage certificate, all you need is the 6gbp email response as to what the build date is for the vin you are providing. They typically respond in 24hrs. Anything more is money flushed down the loo. They cannot see the truck therefore anything further is not a certification and is useless. Never knew so many were arm chair experts on the subject. Unfortunately many take what they read here as gospel despite the incredible amount of misinformation and do no research of their own. If you consider due dilligence/research to be reading Land Rover forums or ebay sellers like Landrovers/UK's ads, bon chance.

All these posts about DHS running out of money and having limited resources is crap. Yes the parent umbrella does but US Customs is a money making entity, they get what they want/need to do their jobs. The income generated by Customs helps fund the other agencies. We have had import duties since colonial times. It is the oldest form of taxation in this country. That is reality.

As far as engines go. Ash had it right. We regularly pull tdi etc engines out, put what is supposed to be there per the VIN decode under the hood just to get it through US customs. I'll let you figure out what happens after they clear. That is the law has been the law, and it is now strictly enforced. The 21 year rule applies to engines loaded on a pallet or packed in a crate, not under the hood of a rolling vehicle.

A lot here on VIN decodes being an end all. I submit its the basic idiot test and only the first step. All the VIN tells you is what engine the truck was built with and what body configuration. Kind of like standing on the street with a real estate listing. If the listing says its a rambler with no fireplaces and you are standing in front of a 2 story colonial with two chimneys- you have a problem.

There is nothing to fear here. There is no voodoo to import law. This is cut and dried / black and white. Vehicles are clearing through daily from all over the world and as long as they are legal they are granted entry. The events of the last two days are not a step backwards. Instead they are what everyone believed was going to happen back in March of 2013 to vehicles handled by the entity in NC.
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  #560  
Old July 17th, 2014, 07:21 AM
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Guys, if at all possible could you please limit quoting to a small relevant section instead of large posts? Or don't quote at all if no context is needed. This thread is long and is only going to get longer!

Also if someone new joins in and is clearly trying to help, but hasn't spent any time on the forum to see that what they are telling us is well known, simply ignore them. There is no need to respond, let alone rudely.

And to keep it on topic, thanks again to Will for stepping up. Please share as much general info as you can with the rest of us that doesn't require you to keep confidential.
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