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  #401  
Old July 16th, 2014, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mnpikey View Post
Submitted story to Jalopnik.
Giving this to Jalopjoke is not going to help anything.
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  #402  
Old July 16th, 2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mnpikey View Post
Submitted story to Jalopnik.
Someone call CNN

Ted Turner is a known Defender nut, and I hear he has a couple grey market vehicles but its "OK" because he keeps them on his private property.
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  #403  
Old July 16th, 2014, 11:57 AM
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The seized vehicles will likely be crushed before anything can even be done legally.
You joined this forum to post this speculative rubbish? You must be a blast at parties too.
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  #404  
Old July 16th, 2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DannyboyUpstate View Post
They also say they are working directly with Land Rover and that's how they know my truck is a 2000 and not a 1983. It is clearly not a 2000.

They tell me my only recourse to get the truck back is to file a claim with the courts in North Carolina proving that I am the owner of the truck, that I know that it's a 1983, and that I didn't know anything about illegal importation.

I feel as though my truck is in the crossfire here because of some other unscrupulous things that this guy had done.
Can you inquire about their contact at Land Rover - JLRNA? If this is indeed true, it may help if their contact is someone who is a bit more educated on Defenders.
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  #405  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:03 PM
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It seems to me that CBP/DHS is assuming all trucks fom Aaron are illegal ergo the VIN attached to the truck is not Proof of the year.
It's stupid easy to decode the VIN and I imagine all seized vehicles will decode as 25 years old or older. But it seems that Govt is not taking that info as evidence of legal vehicle.
It seems to me that CBP/DHS has some evidence of stolen vehicles being VIN swapped or parts from stolen vehicles being installed on imported trucks. Meaning that in order to build a case, they need to confiscate all imports that came through a particular channel to inspect them more intensely than what happened at the port of entry.

You may have a perfectly legal truck, that was properly imported, with the proper drivetrain, etc. But if the VIN from a stolen truck is somewhere on that vehicle, under one of the wings, behind the dash, under the galvy on the frame, then expect them to keep it for the duration of the trial and court proceedings at the very least.

If your truck was seized, ask yourself, did it happen to have late model doors installed on it? If they somehow trace those doors back to a stolen defender then will they keep the doors or assume there is more stolen parts on the truck and destroy it?
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  #406  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:10 PM
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I guess that depends on who the onus is on now to "prove" that the Defender is illegal (or legal!). Presumably, all of these Defenders have already passed many many many governmental channels that have deemed them "legal" - legal for entry, legal for registration, legal for the government to collect taxes on them, legal to be insured, legal to be driven on the road (passed inspection, etc.). If the current owners and vehicles are considered "innocent until proven guilty" then presumably it would be the CBP/DHS's duty to prove that 1) the vehicles entered illegally, or 2) that if the vehicle is now currently configured in a non-stock/original format that the work was done BEFORE the vehicle(s) entered the US. For example, if they point to updated doors from the year 2006 as a clear indication that the vehicle is much newer than 80's vintage, I'd have to assume that they'd have to then also prove WHEN those doors were installed.

And as we've already said previously toward the very beginning of this thread, these trucks appear to be a part of a much larger investigation - so even if 95% of the vehicles imported by the specific individual(s) the CBP is targeting were indeed old 1980's pieces of crap, and 5% were updated vehicles (or whatever reasons CBP is conducting the investigation) then likely ALL of the vehicles imported by the individual(s) are pulled into question as part of the larger investigation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by discotdi View Post
It seems to me that CBP/DHS is assuming all trucks fom Aaron are illegal ergo the VIN attached to the truck is not Proof of the year.
It's stupid easy to decode the VIN and I imagine all seized vehicles will decode as 25 years old or older. But it seems that Govt is not taking that info as evidence of legal vehicle.
So will come down to other evidence of the year I guess. And God forbid if your chassis has been replaced or repaired.
Also if the truck has a 200 or 300 tdi I imagine your toast regardless of the age of the rest of the truck.
I wonder if people will be given the chance to remove the offending engine to get the otherwise 25 year old truck back?
Doubt it.
It seems to me that many people relied on the Govt to their detriment. I.E the truck was allowed in and given a " clean bill of health" by CBP/EPA/DOT etc so must be legal to buy etc.
It's an assumption one would rightly make.
I wonder if a lawyer could file an injunction against seizure until a hearing to determine the likely age of a specific truck on the list. Obviously this warrant is far reaching and does not present evidence for each individual truck. It's like rounding up all the known associates of a criminal to find out if any of them are also criminals. Seems like an over reach by the court in NC. Someone needs to stand up to this court. The judge only heard fom the prosecution.
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  #407  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:17 PM
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Some advice

Hire a lawyer first. Yeah it can be expensive but you are dealing with a court and the prosecutor is a lawyer. Find a lawyer who has decades of experience dealing in the the court your case will be heard in and is a member in good standing with good ole boys and girls lawyer network down in NC. Do not go cheap. Your chances of getting your vehicle back with an attorney increase dramatically over doing it all by yourself. Yeah it costs money but do really want to lose your Land Rover. Do not hire a lawyer from outstate who is a member of the bar in NC.

The AUSAs and/or DHS lawyers are overburdened and overworked. Yeah some of us Feds do work hard. With current immigration situation being the big and in the news these attorneys just want to clear their case load. Thats what their bosses look at and what they are rated on.
Some of them will be detailed to handle the cases for these kids who have crossed illegally and Fed judges of all types will probably be detailed for this mess. A good case presented by a local attorney they know and trust has a good chance of being decided in your favor. Now if your case is sketchy and the evidence doesnt support a favorable outcome then you have to make a decision to either fold or pursue. If you committed fraud or theft oh well enjoy you last days as of freedom.

Some of you all give way to much power and credit to your Federal govt and have to much time to read conspiracy theories on the interweb rather than looking at hot babes and cars. Most Feds are humans. Some are nice guys and girls and competent, other are a holes and others incompetent just like where you work.

I spent over a decade working with govt lawyers. Some are good, some very good and some gawd awful. Just remember the best lawyers want to be paid and your govt just cant compete
since no one on GS scale makes even $300 a hr not even on the SES scale. Most AUSAs are GS 14s and 15s and you can check their pay scale in NC at opm.gov.

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  #408  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:17 PM
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Hmm. Look in the Federal Register to see if there are any RFPs for Land Rover experts in the weeks to come for DHS. They will probably need someone who can ID what's what on each of these vehicles.
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  #409  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:17 PM
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  #410  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:18 PM
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Here's a video regarding land rover seizures in Wilmington NC.

http://www.wect.com/story/21791074/f...-investigation
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  #411  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by crown14 View Post
WTF? Must be a joke, right?
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  #412  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:23 PM
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Hey Greaser, Are you sure that's an '84 in your Avatar, looks like a '95 re-branded to me
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  #413  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:24 PM
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Josh you have it backwards.

Its up to the owner to prove the compliance of the vehicle with Federal laws not the other way around. In this instance any vehicle connected with Aaron is suspect based on their ongoing investigation which uncovered irregularities. Therefore they want to round up those vehicles, reset the clock and verify their legality. Current owners will need to reprove the legality of their vehicles.

Once they have reproved the legality of their vehicle, document same, including perhaps a declaration from a Federal Court that the vehicle is legally in the USA.


https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...-the-u.s.-with
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  #414  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:25 PM
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It case it wasn't obvious, there are Fed moles on this forum and currently commenting on this topic. Common tactic. Notice all the new commenters suddenly interested or posting rambling BS?

So I'd be careful about implicating yourself, your truck, someone else, or commenting on "hiding" trucks.
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  #415  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:29 PM
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I am member on quite a few UK defender based forums via Facebook and on a weekly basis someone is appealing for help as regarding any information in helping to find their stolen Defender. It has become a large problem.
I think it has to come to a point where exporting "rung" land Rovers is easier for criminal gangs in the UK than selling drugs and nearly as lucrative. It would not surprise me if it was all to do with a UK led investigation.
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  #416  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
It case it wasn't obvious, there are Fed moles on this forum and currently commenting on this topic. Common tactic. Notice all the new commenters suddenly interested or posting rambling BS?

So I'd be careful about implicating yourself, your truck, someone else, or commenting on "hiding" trucks.
Hey you had a Dr. AA truck, did you sell it?
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  #417  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Josh you have it backwards.

Its up to the owner to prove the compliance of the vehicle with Federal laws not the other way around. In this instance any vehicle connected with Aaron is suspect based on their ongoing investigation which uncovered irregularities. Therefore they want to round up those vehicles, reset the clock and verify their legality. Current owners will need to reprove the legality of their vehicles.

Once they have reproved the legality of their vehicle, document same, including perhaps a declaration from a Federal Court that the vehicle is legally in the USA.


https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...-the-u.s.-with
I said it depends, because as we all know Defenders are just huge erector sets. As such, many Defenders that entered the US unmolested and completely original have since been updated to configurations that would perhaps prevent them from being cleared by customs today. What I was saying is that even if a vehicle is considered "illegally configured" (i.e. IF they are resetting the clocks and seeing if the vehicles would be able to enter the US today) then it depends on who the onus is on now to prove when the vehicles were configured illegally - either before or after entry into the US. Considering that the Defender community is an enthusiast community, and that many of our parts change hands with little to no paper trail before being bolted onto our vehicles, I could see it being pretty difficult to prove when any of these defenders went under the knife and received the modifications that any CBP agent may say is/are illegal.
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  #418  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
I guess that depends on who the onus is on now to "prove" that the Defender is legal. Presumably, all of these Defenders have already passed many many many governmental channels that have deemed them "legal" - legal for entry, legal for registration, legal for the government to collect taxes on them, legal to be insured, legal to be driven on the road (passed inspection, etc.). If the current owners and vehicles are considered "innocent until proven guilty" then presumably it would be the CBP/DHS's duty to prove that 1) the vehicles entered illegally, or 2) that if the vehicle is now currently configured in a non-stock/original format that the work was done BEFORE the vehicle(s) entered the US. For example, if they point to updated doors from the year 2006 as a clear indication that the vehicle is much newer than 80's vintage, I'd have to assume that they'd have to then also prove when those doors were installed.

And as we've already said previously toward the very beginning of this thread, these trucks appear to be a part of a much larger investigation - so even if 95% of the vehicles imported by the specific individual(s) the CBP is targeting were indeed old 1980's pieces of crap, and 5% were updated vehicles (or whatever reasons CBP is conducting the investigation) then likely ALL of the vehicles imported by the individual(s) are pulled into question as part of the larger investigation.
Wake Up !

In the post 9/11 world were we have completely militarized so many different agencies and given them broad reaching to almost unlimited powers under the guise of Homeland Security this is no longer the case.

Seemingly many Americans aren't aware of the civil liberties we have surrendered over the past 13 years, or just don't care.

This is Customs acting to cover their blunders @ Wilmington. I know from speaking with a shipping line rep that every single one of Aaron's containers was opened, inspected by Customs Officers and had Department of Agriculture through them as well. This all happened @ US Customs Intensive Exam warehouse in Wilmington, not @ the port. IE they went over each of these vehicles with a fine tooth comb @ the time entry was granted . FYI Department of Agriculture officers @ the port wear body armor and guns- WTF ?

Yes they should have contacted owners of said vehicles 3-4 years after the fact and asked to schedule an inspection as opposed to seizing them. This is a perfect example of an agency overstepping what is right.

What the hell are US Customs thinking taking and brandish weapons to seize a vehicle from owners who they freely acknowledge have committed no crime and are oblivious ? Completely uncalled for. They seem to have forgotten who their employer is, the tax paying public they are pointing their guns at.

That opens another argument, who's to say what the condition of the truck was when it was imported. I know of several of Aarons "restoration candidates" that after being bought off of ebay have been completely taken apart rebuilt with new and used components bought from any possible sources whether it be ebay UK sellers or stateside vendors by the individuals who bought them. Several of these trucks bare little if any resemblance to the truck originally imported. How seizing a truck that's been here for nearly 5 years could be useful evidence seems very thin to me.

Its amazing to me how few here are angered by whats transpiring, despite the fact that its striking so close to home for all.
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  #419  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:48 PM
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Oh we're angry. What do you suggest we do about it on this thread?

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Its amazing to me how few here are angered by whats transpiring, despite the fact that its striking so close to home for all.
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  #420  
Old July 16th, 2014, 12:50 PM
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The definative indentifier should be the VIN located on only a few places, not every body panel. For those that might done a chassis I swap I always thought that keeping the original VIN stamped horn and a bill of sale for the replacement chassis would be a no-brainer to prove everything was on the up & up. Considering so many parts on these tinker toys are recycled and passed on to other enthusiasts, purchased from a plethora of venders, purchased overseas and shipping (hell, all LRs and parts start there) it would be difficult to prove any other way than by the VIN. I personally feel that the fed's should lean towards lenency of the owners unless they can, without any question, prove a particular vehicle is newer than the the 25 year rule, not an NAS or has a VIN of a known stolen LR in Europe. But that's just my humble opinion. I feel nothing but sadness and angst for those unknowingly effected by this debacle.
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