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  #1  
Old January 17th, 2018, 08:03 PM
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Question Hmmm...

...why were Hummer H1s allowed to go without airbags up to 2006 in the US when Defenders were banded from the US market in 1998 due to no airbags?
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  #2  
Old January 17th, 2018, 08:07 PM
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"With gross vehicle weights well over 8,500 pounds, the current Hummer models do not have to meet federal safety, emissions or fuel economy standards; it does not have airbags. The H1 is available as a two- and four-door hardtop, a four-door with a folding soft-top and a four-door wagon with an enclosed cargo area"
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Old January 17th, 2018, 09:44 PM
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i have never seen any proof ever that airbags had anything to do with defenders no longer being sold in the US.
No actual references. No federal documents. nothing. just a series of self referential articles written by car journalists that all used each other as proof.

The whole airbag thing sounded just plausible enough for it to catch on as fact. It was just enough to satisfy the curiosity of people who were looking for a rational reason for the end of US Defender sales.Haven't seen any proof at all of it.
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  #4  
Old January 17th, 2018, 09:51 PM
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Hmmm...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbag

The United States Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991 required passenger cars and light trucks built after 1 September 1998 to have air bags for the driver and the right front passenger

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inte...Efficiency_Act
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Old January 17th, 2018, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbag

The United States Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991 required passenger cars and light trucks built after 1 September 1998 to have air bags for the driver and the right front passenger
This /\
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Old January 17th, 2018, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbag

The United States Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991 required passenger cars and light trucks built after 1 September 1998 to have air bags for the driver and the right front passenger

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inte...Efficiency_Act
is it a light truck? Says here its a class III truck

1999 saw some significant changes for the Hummer. Government regulations required the Hummer (which is a class III Truck) to have ABS for the first time. Unfortunately the Torsen differentials and the Brake/Throttle Modulation (BTM) Technique that made them so effective off-road were not compatible with the required Anti-lock Braking System. The solution to keeping the Hummer's Off-road prowess and complying with the regulations was Torque Trac 4 or TT4. This electronic system preforms a version of BTM but without driver participation. When wheel spin is detected, brake is automatically applied to the spinning wheel and torque is transferred to the wheel with traction. The new Torsen II differential works much the same as the old Torsen but with less torque bias. Manual BTM still works on the '99 Hummers but is not as effective because of the lower torque bias. Some owners love the TT4 system while others prefer the old system of manual BTM .
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Old January 17th, 2018, 10:27 PM
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that's very interesting...so is there no airbag requirement in europe?
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Old January 17th, 2018, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
that's very interesting...so is there no airbag requirement in europe?

No. Go and read the link I provided. It is explained there.
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Old January 17th, 2018, 10:44 PM
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It all revolved around not being allowed to mandate seatbelt use. So they mandated very fast airbags that could protect a person not wearing a seat belt. The end result was injuries from the airbags.
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Old January 18th, 2018, 08:31 AM
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makes sense. i see the literature now on so-called "unbelted dummy testing" and fatalities and injuries stemming from airbags without seatbelts.

edit:

Here's the actual text of the bill:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/102nd-...ouse-bill/2950

Say, hypothetically, had Defenders been built with token airbags just to meet regs, would they have actually passed crash safety tests?

Has Euro NCAP ever tested a Land Rover Defender, or is there also an exemption there?
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  #11  
Old January 18th, 2018, 09:28 AM
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Just took a look at Euro Ncap and NHTSA crash test report sites. Its interesting that neither has a crash test report on the Defender.

Wonder if LR discouraged it cos they knew the outcome wouldn't be pretty.
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  #12  
Old January 18th, 2018, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
is it a light truck? Says here its a class III truck

1999 saw some significant changes for the Hummer. Government regulations required the Hummer (which is a class III Truck) to have ABS for the first time. Unfortunately the Torsen differentials and the Brake/Throttle Modulation (BTM) Technique that made them so effective off-road were not compatible with the required Anti-lock Braking System. The solution to keeping the Hummer's Off-road prowess and complying with the regulations was Torque Trac 4 or TT4. This electronic system preforms a version of BTM but without driver participation. When wheel spin is detected, brake is automatically applied to the spinning wheel and torque is transferred to the wheel with traction. The new Torsen II differential works much the same as the old Torsen but with less torque bias. Manual BTM still works on the '99 Hummers but is not as effective because of the lower torque bias. Some owners love the TT4 system while others prefer the old system of manual BTM .
Yes class III but still only had to pay standard passenger toll road rates.

If a driver drove a BTM truck first they hated TT4. If a driver drove the TT4 truck first they didn't really know what BTM was and didn't miss it. TT4 drivers could and still drove with both feet to be be able to somewhat BTM.

There was a video that showed a BTM truck drive up a set of rollers. Similar to those found at the end of conveyor belts. There was 1 spot where there was only 1 front time on hard ground and the truck was still able to drive up after showing all tires spinning.
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