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  #1  
Old April 24th, 2015, 05:22 PM
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David Frank
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Hey pilots or aviation buffs!

What just flew over? I'm on the approach to Napa Muni and see all sorts of high end private aircraft, but I just saw something I've never seen before. I couldn't get a pic as it was moving really fast. Description:

Wide body
High tail
Swept high surface area wings
Looked like rear mounted engines and fins

(But here is the kicker)

It had wing mounted engines as well!!!

Anyone have any ideas what it could have been? Google was hopeless!
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  #2  
Old April 24th, 2015, 05:27 PM
javelinadave
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Could it be this?


Lockheed Jetstar
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  #3  
Old April 24th, 2015, 05:31 PM
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Russell
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DC-10, DC-11 or a L-1011. All of these are now surmised to cargo duty.

Err, sorry. I missed Napa Muni in your post. It would be Nat'l news if one of these heavies (crash) landed there.
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  #4  
Old April 24th, 2015, 05:32 PM
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David Frank
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No worries. Called the tower. It was actually a Lockheed Jetstar II. Very cool. I wonder if pussy galore was at the controls! :-) Goldfinger! :-)

From directly underneath, those mid-wing mounted fuel pods look just like engines. I could've sworn I heard four engines, and I guess I did. All of them were rear mounted though.
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  #5  
Old April 24th, 2015, 05:33 PM
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David Frank
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Hey, thanks guys! That was fast! While I was writing my response I failed to notice that all you guys had already chimed in. Correctly, as well! :-)

I've always like that plane, I've just never seen one airborne. The State Department had a small fleet of them back in the 70s and 80s. I've seen one amongst the mothball fleet with USAF/Department of State regalia.

One of the only planes slightly more unusual would've been the modified Vickers VC 10 used in the movie "Contact" with the fifth tail engine.

My bad, just realized that it had been a modified 727. Still love the Vickers!
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  #6  
Old April 24th, 2015, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D90Overkill View Post
One of the only planes slightly more unusual would've been the modified Vickers VC 10 used in the movie "Contact" with the fifth tail engine.
Or an Ilyushin Il-62. I've flown on one of these before. Scary flying under maintained Soviet built aircraft.
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  #7  
Old April 24th, 2015, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LuisC View Post
Or an Ilyushin Il-62. I've flown on one of these before. Scary flying under maintained Soviet built aircraft.
Terrifying! I'll bet! You can count me out. It's always easy to spot the cannibalized replacement parts on Russian commercial aircraft because they're usually a different color from the previous aircraft's paint scheme :-)

That Ilyushin Il-62 is almost identical to the Vickers. I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg! ;-)
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Old April 24th, 2015, 06:14 PM
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I don't think you could burn money faster in an incinerator than you could flying around a Jetstar.
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  #9  
Old April 24th, 2015, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
I don't think you could burn money faster in an incinerator than you could flying around a Jetstar.
Hahahaha!!!!

It's no Citation X! But the cool factor! Holy Sh!t! It just dawned on me. It's the defender of the post modern jet aviation world! Fuel mileage and all! ;-)
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  #10  
Old April 24th, 2015, 07:18 PM
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If it's a pusher prop it could be a Beech Starship. They are rare. Designed by Burt Rutan.

Scratch that. Saw its a Jetstar. Starships are still cool though!
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  #11  
Old April 24th, 2015, 07:20 PM
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Just to mess with you, there is a jet with engines over the wings but not on the tail https://www.hondajet.com/
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  #12  
Old April 24th, 2015, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D90Overkill View Post
Terrifying! I'll bet! You can count me out. It's always easy to spot the cannibalized replacement parts on Russian commercial aircraft because they're usually a different color from the previous aircraft's paint scheme :-) That Ilyushin Il-62 is almost identical to the Vickers. I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg! ;-)
I'm sure the VC-10 was first. Like the Chinese, the Russians have been notorious for corporate espionage and copying other country's superior designs. The C-5 was copied. The Mig 25 resembled the F15. And so on. ------ Follow up post added April 24th, 2015 07:18 PM ------
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterjah View Post
If it's a pusher prop it could be a Beech Starship. They are rare. Designed by Burt Rutan. Scratch that. Saw its a Jetstar. Starships are still cool though!
I'm under the impression Beechcraft bought back all the Starships because of a design flaw that made them an extreme liability.

I know not many were made and sold. And some have been destroyed.
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  #13  
Old April 24th, 2015, 08:48 PM
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Yeah, I remember the starships. A lot of Silicon Valley types used to prefer them because of the eco-friendly impression. Now they just turn their widebody Boeings into flying RVs. :-)
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  #14  
Old April 24th, 2015, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Just to mess with you, there is a jet with engines over the wings but not on the tail https://www.hondajet.com/
Yeah, those Honda Jets are supposed to be amazingly quiet having nearly rear propulsion and no engine to fuselage contact. Almost a clean wing as well. Not my style preference, but definitely interesting from a design point.
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  #15  
Old April 24th, 2015, 09:55 PM
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Those are fuel tanks, by the way.
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  #16  
Old April 24th, 2015, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RBBailey View Post
Those are fuel tanks, by the way.
Where? Which aircraft are you referring to as we have been talking about quite a few at this point. Regarding the original inquiry? Yes. They are massive fuel pods on the Lockheed! Needed due to freakish inefficiency :-)
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  #17  
Old April 24th, 2015, 10:49 PM
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Beech (now Cessna, they got bought) took back all but one Starship. They had issues that made them unviable in the long run. Very distinctive sound when they go over top, doggy performance to boot.

Many may make fun of Russian aircraft, but I had 2 AN-32B and an IL-76 leased into my operations in Africa. They just don't break, they go 1000 hours with line maintenance then back to Kiev, get new engines and a through going over, back for another 1000 hours. The tires are comical with over 100 ply, you can wear through something like 30 before they are to be changed. They look like a ball of string by then. Instead of formed sheet metal, they use extrusions. Tank is an understatement. Their only downside, they drink fuel and surprisingly, oil. An equivalent western engine uses the fuel burn and have a max (take it off the wing) 1/3 a pint of oil consumption per hour. The AN-32 used 1 gallon per side per hour. Really weird on a turbine, but not for them.

Elvis had a jetstar. It is for sale as we speak, along with his Convair 990.

Fokker tried the same engine mounting as the Honda on a regional jet back in the 80's didn't work out.
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Old April 24th, 2015, 10:55 PM
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With regards to Russian aircraft, especially military, durability was definitely the number one design element. I remember A comparison between US F-15s and Russian MiG-25's. The superior Eagles could outperform the MiG's but required ACE runways and a 15 man groundcrew while the 25's could land on a dirt stretch and be maintained by a couple of teenagers with a hammer, wrench and a screwdriver. :-)
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  #19  
Old April 24th, 2015, 11:02 PM
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The Mig 25 was HUGE! You forgot the 90 car fuel train on a siding by they runway. A bud of mine, "Larry the Pickle" went mano a mano with one in an F14 off Libya during the line of death dance. He could stay on his six all the time, the engines where so big you could park the nose of the F14 in the nozzle. But when it got too much for the Mig, he punched it and just walked away from the F14, bad ass fast, straight line. It was designed to intercept and shoot down the XB-70, which we only built 2 of. Reaganesque fake out of the Russians in the 60's.
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Old April 24th, 2015, 11:13 PM
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There is a guy who flies a Piaggio into PDX once a week or so, you can hear it coming from a long way off, and no mistaking the sound. The Starships do sound a bit like them, but not as funky.

I'm unsure if I've ever actually seen a MiG-25. It was either that or a 31. Either way, they are huge. They were very, very fast, but had limited range as well, if I remember right.
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