Help! 110 Rear End Swaying. - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old September 21st, 2006, 01:23 PM
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Help! 110 Rear End Swaying.

Well I put on new OME Springs and shocks, front and rear on the 110 finally. The bushings looked fine as I and the previous owner never did drive it very much (70k fwy miles). The problem now is when I'm on the freeway and if I change lanes a bit enthusiatically, the rear of the truck starts to sway and lean against the turn. The new springs lifted the rear end about 2.5 inches if not 3 inches so its a lot higher than it was compared to the flattened stock springs. I'm kinda surprised Keith at BP didn't mention anything when I bought the springs because you would think this happens quite often on the 110. I've searched the threads here and aside from changing the sway bars, I've yet to read about a successful fix. I'm actually kinda excited to have a real reason to post hehe. ahem Anyway my question is, if I changed the rubber bushings on the rear sway bar to hard poly's, do you guys think it'll stop the loose rear end? I appreciate the help. Cheers!

Neil
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  #2  
Old September 21st, 2006, 01:47 PM
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Neil-
could be the sway bar bushings but it shoudl not be that bad with out a sway bar at all. I dont; run a bar in the rear unless I have a load on top... Bad rear link bushings could cause this... does it act funny when breaking? sometimes when they go bad it can almost make you change lanes when you brake. Changing the bushings can;t hurt espicially if they have 70k on them. Polu vs. stock is an age old debate... I have had probelms with both.. do a search and make your choice.

Are the shocks new? n44's in the rear?
Are they tight?
This was not a problem before the new setup?
What springs #'s did you get?

When you lift a rover the rear links will become tight and "bind" the bushings... this is a common cause of rear end steering in rovers. there are many things you can try, DAP has a set of rear link bushings that they claim fix the problem. Or get some cranked rear links from rover tracks ect.

110's will do this normally if lifted, how much rear end steering are we talking about?
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  #3  
Old September 21st, 2006, 01:55 PM
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David Marchand
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How old are the shocks? Sounds lack a lack of dampening and maybe some binding as above.
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  #4  
Old September 21st, 2006, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarchand
How old are the shocks? Sounds lack a lack of dampening and maybe some binding as above.
The shocks are brand new Old Man Emu's, even put a new steering dampner on it. (irrelevant I know)



Neil

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by D90user
Neil-
could be the sway bar bushings but it shoudl not be that bad with out a sway bar at all. I dont; run a bar in the rear unless I have a load on top... Bad rear link bushings could cause this... does it act funny when breaking? sometimes when they go bad it can almost make you change lanes when you brake. Changing the bushings can;t hurt espicially if they have 70k on them. Polu vs. stock is an age old debate... I have had probelms with both.. do a search and make your choice.

Are the shocks new? n44's in the rear?
Are they tight?
This was not a problem before the new setup?
What springs #'s did you get?

When you lift a rover the rear links will become tight and "bind" the bushings... this is a common cause of rear end steering in rovers. there are many things you can try, DAP has a set of rear link bushings that they claim fix the problem. Or get some cranked rear links from rover tracks ect.

110's will do this normally if lifted, how much rear end steering are we talking about?
I have to get home to check the springs #'s. What if I pulled off the stickers on the springs, is there another way to identify the numbers? I chucked the box away, receipt is probably taped somewhere on the box. Yes the shocks are brand new. Top of my head I remember keith sold me heavy duty rear springs. The lift in the rear is high, come to think of it the space between the wheel arch and the tire is like around 7 inches of space. This didn't happen before the setup, it was only after the lift did it start to sway. It sways enough to the point where I actually have to hold the steering wheel straight to keep it from going side to side. Sometimes I have to actively try to keep the steering wheel straight to keep it from swaying. The brakes are fine, that hasn't changed at all. It feels like because the rear is so high, the truck easily sways from being top heavy, at least thatats how it feels/seems. Are n44's the part number for OME shocks? All shocks front and rear replaced the same time the springs were. When you say rear links do you mean the trailing arm links? Do you think I should change the bushings in the lower trailing arm links as well as the sway bar bushings? The bushing looked fine when I saw them, tried to pry them around with a pry bar and they didn't move excessively. Mabye harder poly's on the arms would help? Thanks!

Neil
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  #5  
Old September 21st, 2006, 02:26 PM
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Yep I mean the trailing arms... polys may help but if the bushings are good on the trailing arms this should not be much of an issue regarding the sway bar.
N44 should be stamped on the shock. it is the heavy duty OME and that is what you need. If the shocks and springs are new I would think it is the trailing arm bushings, or binding. Take a measurment off the top of the tire to the arch and I'll check it against mine if you like. also incluse tire size. or even better take a pic of the bushings.

If binding is causing this you will need new trailing arms... but that is only if the lift is big. I'm running the stiffest OME makes for the 110 and I have a little rear end steering but nothing excessive, and I don;t run any sway bars. But when she is un loaded I can feel more rear end steering and that is a testimate to the binding. IMO you don't want the hard polys (red) if the truck ever sees dirt.

If you dont have the tags it will be difficult to tell, call BP and ask what the sent you.

I had one bad shock that caused this a while back FYI.
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  #6  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 02:37 PM
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I've replaced the springs and shocks (damper also) on my 110 and have the same sway. I've got OME 751 (HD) in front and 755 (MD) in the rear. My shocks are OME N115 in front and N44 in back (both "Firm"). This resulted in about a 2" lift. I've since replaced all the suspension bushings and, although things are considerably tighter (and quieter!), the sway remains. I've got a Scorpion Racing HD rear sway bar on order from 4x4ag (Adrian has 5 of them on order). I've heard good things about it, so I figured I might as well try it. It's my last resort.
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  #7  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 05:35 PM
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I keep seeing a rear sway bar drop kit for lifted defenders on ebay, to compensate for the lift angle of the sway bar. anybody have experience with that? is that a workable solution, or a bunch of crap?
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  #8  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 06:42 PM
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Replace the A-frame balljoint. To check to see if it is bad, stick a prybar in there and see if there is any upward movement or a click. This should help a lot.
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  #9  
Old September 22nd, 2006, 11:57 PM
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I have an OME lift, Koni Heavy Track Raid shocks, and Scorpion HD Sway bar with 2 inch drop kit and quick disconnects. Drives like a rally car. I was in the Alabama Hills on Sunday doing dirt drifts before we set off on foot to climb Mt. Whitney. Car handles really well with this set up. The sway bar is all important, and takes less than a minute to disconnect when you need articulation. You also need cones in the rear for the longer Raid shocks to prevent dislocation of the springs on full articulation.

DW
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  #10  
Old September 23rd, 2006, 08:26 AM
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Sounds like you got the super HD springs from ARB, which is good if you load it heavily (1100+ pounds in the rear cargo area. You may be topping out the OME shocks if you actually got 3 inches of Lift. I would try loading some sand bags (or soemthing else cheap dense and heavy) in the back and see how it handles. Unless you are going to load the truck heavily those are the wrong springs for a daily driver. In the future keep your stickers on your springs when you install them for reference purposes, and measure from the wheel arch to the center of the hub on each corner before you start and after you start. This will help you with fine tuning the suspension and diagnosing possible issues such as this.

Rear Spings from OME Application Guide:

Light load 752 (0 LB + GVW)
Medium Load 755 (660 LB + GVW)
Heavy Load 754 (1100 LB + GVW)

Jesse
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  #11  
Old September 23rd, 2006, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug
Scorpion HD Sway bar with 2 inch drop kit
Doug-

Are you talking about the one or two inch sway bar spacer block? Adrian doesn't think I need any spacers. I don't know. How did you make the determination that you need the two inch spacer?

Just got an update from Adrian@4x4ag: Good news is the sway bars are in and he's shipping one out to me next week! Bad news is he ordered five and Scorpion only shipped him two.
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  #12  
Old September 23rd, 2006, 12:48 PM
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I've been so busy at work and I keep getting home late. It's always too dark for my camera phone to take a pic of the bushings and lift. Gonna measure it and take pics after work today, I get out early on Saturday. Thanks for all suggestions, I took a quick look and the stickers are still on (thank god). I'll take a better look underneath when I get home. Maine, what if I do have the heavy duty springs, would the scopion heavy duty sway bars fix that lean? I'd hate to have to take those off again, plus I don't know if BP will let me exchange them. Hopefully new trailing arm polys & a HD sway bar will work. I like the lift it looks great, towers over my other 90's, I hope I can keep that look. Can anyone give me a link to the best place to buy scorpion HD sway bars?



Neil


PS evil, the A-frame ball joints were ok when I checked them last, no movement or clicking or anything, it was stiff for the most part.
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  #13  
Old September 23rd, 2006, 02:25 PM
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put on e brake & have someone roll the car
put your hand by the A arm ball to feel for movement
the same works for drag link bush
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  #14  
Old September 23rd, 2006, 04:53 PM
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"the A-frame ball joints"

There is only one. Right where it mounts to the axle.
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  #15  
Old September 23rd, 2006, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley
IMaine, what if I do have the heavy duty springs, would the scopion heavy duty sway bars fix that lean? I'd hate to have to take those off again, plus I don't know if BP will let me exchange them. Hopefully new trailing arm polys & a HD sway bar will work. I like the lift it looks great, towers over my other 90's, I hope I can keep that look. Can anyone give me a link to the best place to buy scorpion HD sway bars?



Neil


PS evil, the A-frame ball joints were ok when I checked them last, no movement or clicking or anything, it was stiff for the most part.
The HD sway bars may help. I think Ron is right on with checking your a arm Ball Joint, also sypetematic if you get a clunk when going from reverse to forward. Also check that your trailing arms are tight at the frame mount, I've seen them loosen up either from bushing wear or road vibration to the point that there is 1/8 inch of play at the joint which makes things real squirly on the highway.

I doubt that you will be able to return the springs. It would be nice tofind out what you actually purchased though for reference

Jesse
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  #16  
Old September 23rd, 2006, 09:32 PM
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I put the spacers on because I had inverted the ball joints at the sway bar ends in the past when articulated. Didn't want that to happen so easily again. Also, I think you get better duty out of the bar if it is more parallel to the road surface. Just my opinion.

DW
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  #17  
Old September 23rd, 2006, 10:41 PM
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i have the boat feel as well but i have a little different setup i have $R springs with 7100 shocks
i do not have a sway bar [for years now] i have gotten used to the feeling
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  #18  
Old September 25th, 2006, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug
I put the spacers on because I had inverted the ball joints at the sway bar ends in the past when articulated. Didn't want that to happen so easily again. Also, I think you get better duty out of the bar if it is more parallel to the road surface. Just my opinion.
Cool, thanks Doug.

Neil, www.4x4ag.com carries the Scorpion HD Sway Bar though it's not on their website.
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  #19  
Old September 25th, 2006, 02:53 PM
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Well I took a few pics with my camera phone of the 110's rear suspension. I tried the hand on the ball joint and someone rocking the rig and there was no play or movement. It was pretty stiff, including the trailing arms but I did notice that once the new suspension was installed, there are some gaps in the top and bottom of the main chassis bushings. Unfortunately I was wrong about the tags on the springs, I guess I tore them off, couldn't remember but I'll call BP and ask for that invoice. The stamping on the shock is N46. The last two pictures are of this stray kitten I found underneath the 110 on Saturday, and one of tori spelling I took on Sunday while strolling through Santa Monica.



Neil
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  #20  
Old September 26th, 2006, 02:50 AM
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N46 is you problem Neil... you need the n44's. I can;t believe BP sold you n46's for a 110. do you have a # on the springs yet?

Also you trailing arm bushings are binding a bit... nothing serious but that will give that boat feeling.

Change out theos n46's for 44's and it will help, your just not getting enough dampning.

If they won't take them back (probably won't) sell them here, some one will buy them with a ST 90.
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