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  #21  
Old March 30th, 2009, 07:03 PM
pushngo
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Randy Williams
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It is interesting you qualify the aftermarket parts you use and denounce the rest. I don't know why any knowledgable person would use a LR fuel filter, steering pump brake pads etc when there are better and cheaper products out there. Do you actually buy OEM tires I see you drive a truck that was not imported here also.
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  #22  
Old March 30th, 2009, 07:40 PM
discotdi
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Todd Miller
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Randy I think you missed the beginning of this thread. nothing wrong at all with using aftermarket LR parts. I don't think those are made by Toyota, Mercedes, GM etc. My personal opinion and again it is MY personal opinion is that I would not put Toyota, Jeep. Mercedes, etc parts on my LR. Again as stated before I drive a LR because I feel it is the best 4x4 by far as an off the shelf 4wd. I don't feel the need to "upgrade" my LR with other brands parts. I have owned 4 Toyota LC's and I enjoy the roughly 12 Land Rovers I have had over the past 13 years much more. I think they are superior vehicles and don't need any other brands parts to be the best. Do I use aftermarket LR parts, yes. OME, GBR, RN, Expedition exchange. I support companies that cater to LR owners and supply upgraded LR parts for specific applications.
As I have stated now numerous times if you want to include Toyota as your aftermarket LR supplier then go ahead. I can't believe I am defending the quality of Land Rovers 4wd and parts on a LR forum.
As for my disco it is a US spec vehicle with a LR diesel engine, I don't think that falls outside the boundries of this forum or my stated opinion on using LR parts.
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  #23  
Old March 30th, 2009, 07:51 PM
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I read it all and the fact of who makes the upgrade is irrelevent if it is better and/or cheaper actually hardly any of the Toy swap is Toyota just the housing actually, everything else is from people who supply this and other Rover aftermarket accessories. The steering pumps, fuel filters are Chevy parts the "better" injectors are Ford. No body who runs offroad at all uses any one brand name vehicle they use what is best for their circumstance.

LR built a very sound vehicle for off road but that being said there is still room for improvement...a lot.
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  #24  
Old March 30th, 2009, 07:51 PM
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Jeff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discotdi
Randy I think you missed the beginning of this thread. nothing wrong at all with using aftermarket LR parts. I don't think those are made by Toyota, Mercedes, GM etc. My personal opinion and again it is MY personal opinion is that I would not put Toyota, Jeep. Mercedes, etc parts on my LR. Again as stated before I drive a LR because I feel it is the best 4x4 by far as an off the shelf 4wd. I don't feel the need to "upgrade" my LR with other brands parts. I have owned 4 Toyota LC's and I enjoy the roughly 12 Land Rovers I have had over the past 13 years much more. I think they are superior vehicles and don't need any other brands parts to be the best. Do I use aftermarket LR parts, yes. OME, GBR, RN, Expedition exchange. I support companies that cater to LR owners and supply upgraded LR parts for specific applications.
As I have stated now numerous times if you want to include Toyota as your aftermarket LR supplier then go ahead. I can't believe I am defending the quality of Land Rovers 4wd and parts on a LR forum.
As for my disco it is a US spec vehicle with a LR diesel engine, I don't think that falls outside the boundries of this forum or my stated opinion on using LR parts.
It's not a big deal, and I understand what you are saying and agree to a certain extent, but the toyota kit comes from a Land Rover company, Rovertracks, in the same manner that aftermarket parts come from those other companies.
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  #25  
Old March 30th, 2009, 09:18 PM
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Shawn Palmer
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Well, anyway, and to keep on track here I will post what I received from Bill at GBR. I told him that my truck seemed a little sluggish, especially hauling my little trailer. Here is is response, he was very helpful.


Shawn,
I have 3.90, 4.11. 4.14 and 4.71ratios. Here is a few comments on each ratio:

3.90 - Probably not enough drop in gearing for your situation.

4.11 - About what you need and the most common ratio we sell. Lowers gearing enough to solve your problems but also mains nice highway characteristics.

4.14 - essentially interchangeable with a 4.11 but about 25% more durable because of a coarser tooth count. The preferred choice if you are intending to aggressively off road your Defender

4.71 - Too much gearing for your situation.

Some additional notes. Our 4.11s, 4.14s and 4.71s have a specific front gear set which are a reverse rotation design. This adds about a 25% increase in durability and is unique to us. Our gear also come with all of the items required to install them including set up shims, both pinion height and pinion bearing preload, new 22 mm pinion nut, washer and pinion seal.

We also offer a complete remanufactured exchange differential program. We have lots of core differential housings so we can remanufacture new differentials to you specifications in advance so all you have to do is install them and send your existing differentials as cores. Many people do not realize that Land Rovers date stamp there differential housings. For Defenders we use the correct date stamped housings to maintain the integrity of your vehicle.

Last thing is we are now Thrust Bolting LR differential housings. This is a ring gear support system that is designed to prevent ring gear deflection, the primary cause of gear failure. If you are planning on aggressively off roading the vehicle this is a useful upgrade.

Give me a call at 801 486 5049 to discuss all of this in more detail or to order.

Best regards
Bill


Shawn
Cost is $449.95 each ($899.90 total). As noted previously, the gear
kits include all of the bits needed for a correct install with the
exception of the bearings, which are an optional addition which is
based on their mileage and/or condition. We can supply these upon
request. Cost is $149.95 per diff. Give me a call tomorrow.

Best regards
Bill
GBR
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  #26  
Old March 30th, 2009, 09:57 PM
discotdi
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Todd Miller
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there you go. got the info. you needed. Sorry about all the fluff in the middle. Now you can conquer the Darien Gap, as only Land Rover has done before! Good luck, hope to see you at a SOLAROS meeting soon.
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  #27  
Old March 30th, 2009, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pushngo
It is interesting you qualify the aftermarket parts you use and denounce the rest. I don't know why any knowledgable person would use a LR fuel filter, steering pump brake pads etc when there are better and cheaper products out there. Do you actually buy OEM tires I see you drive a truck that was not imported here also.
I use LR fuel filters and brake pads and would love to get XPCs for my range rover if they still made them and I have stock BFG ATs on my D90, BUT if I was changing ratios I would do a rovertracks Toyota 4.1 diff in front and a salisbury with 4.1 dana 60 gears in the back. It would be more work, but it would be twice as strong as GBR drop outs and would cost about the same. Of course, everyone know I am the guy who only offroads once or twice a year and does so in a stock truck of one form or another.
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  #28  
Old March 30th, 2009, 10:41 PM
discotdi
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Todd Miller
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Hey I hope there are no hard feelings and when I snap an axle on the trail you Toyota guys will still give me a tow!
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  #29  
Old March 31st, 2009, 10:14 AM
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$1200 dollars for gears that max out at a 33in tire?!

You guys keep polishing. At least you have us mutts to look down on!

No hard feelings.
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  #30  
Old March 31st, 2009, 10:38 AM
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I think the ratio of "complete brand loyalty" to "whatever works" is directly related to how much stuff you have broken. If you wheel in places where you never break anything with stock 24 splines then your brand loyalty is high and that stuff is great, but start going places and running tires that keep snapping axles and ruining your day on the trail and you quickly change that attitude to find stronger stuff, I know I did.
You guys can't debate what is "better" because it all depends on what you are doing and what you have done.
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  #31  
Old March 31st, 2009, 10:52 AM
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Jim Cheney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
You guys can't debate what is "better" because it all depends on what you are doing and what you have done.
Oh, no no - there is an absolute right answer here, and a morally-correct one at that! Fortunately, we have buck here to tell us what is right
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  #32  
Old March 31st, 2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
Oh, no no - there is an absolute right answer here, and a morally-correct one at that! Fortunately, we have buck here to tell us what is right
Well, when the arguement on one side is that it's much less expensive, much stronger, and many more gearing options. And the only arguement on the other side is that were not real rover owners.

So yeah, there seems to be a very clear answer here.

Edit: I don't care at all what people want to spend their money on. Whatever makes people happy. I just really f-ing hate the elietist, condesending, better than you rover bs attitude. It's stupid, and gives rover owners a terrible reputation.
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  #33  
Old March 31st, 2009, 12:15 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
I don't care at all what people want to spend their money on. Whatever makes people happy. I just really f-ing hate the elietist, condesending, better than you rover bs attitude. It's stupid, and gives rover owners a terrible reputation.
But we are better Buck, that's why we don't drive Jeeps right!
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  #34  
Old March 31st, 2009, 12:27 PM
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I think the elitist, condescending, better-than-you attitude is simply personality dependent, and certainly not limited to Rover people. Buck, please verify if my opinion is correct
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  #35  
Old March 31st, 2009, 12:40 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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We really need to get some kind of smiley to portray sarcasm better. BTW, Jeff, I have a Jeep too, and the power steering is actually the worst part of it. In the 70k miles I've had it the gearbox was replaced, several hoses have been replaced and the pump has been replaced three times! In fact, knock on wood, the steering has been just about my only problem.
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  #36  
Old March 31st, 2009, 01:11 PM
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Randy Williams
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If it doesn't leak how do you find your way home??
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  #37  
Old March 31st, 2009, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
I think the elitist, condescending, better-than-you attitude is simply personality dependent, and certainly not limited to Rover people. Buck, please verify if my opinion is correct
You are correct, it is not limited to Rover people. However, as a percentage, it is freikishly high in the rover crowd, and the intensity is crazy. This site has gotten significantly better over the years though.

For instance, I got less negative comments when I wheeled with an all Toyota club than when I attended the RR7. Think about that for a second, it's messed up. I have nothing toyota on my rig at all.

I like this site for the info it can give on the 300 and that there are a lot of people I consider my e-friends. But, the stupid still bothers me, obviously.
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  #38  
Old March 31st, 2009, 01:48 PM
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Shawn, for what it's worth, I have GBR 4.11 gears (thrust bolted) and love the difference.

charles
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  #39  
Old March 31st, 2009, 02:27 PM
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Shawn I put Ashcroft 4.11s in this weekend and so far I like them! I wouldn't put them on a truck with 33s though because I can feel them almost top out on 35s. It is nice to climb hills again!

As for the elitist attitude: I don't think most Defender owners have this mentality. The only reason this is felt is because of the brand. Yes, RRs and LR3s are luxury trucks which is directly associated with elitist. But as a whole I feel Defender owners are not. We as a whole are cautious of modifying our vehicles only because of the rarity of them.

For instance, Jeeps are a dime a dozen in the US. They are inexpensive with plenty of spare parts. And we see plenty of highly modified Jeeps out there. Land Rovers are rare in the States, and rarer is the Defender, so I think most of us are cautious in modifying a 30k+ 15 year old truck that we still are paying off!

I think Buck's truck is awesome and I am glad he set it up for his type of wheeling. Its better to see him enjoying what the truck is made for than not seeing people use them. And we all owe a lot to Dave, because when someone in a buggy gives us a funny look for being an “elitist” we can always know there is one of us willing to make the Land Rover mark more badass then we imagined.
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  #40  
Old March 31st, 2009, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ini88
Shawn I put Ashcroft 4.11s in this weekend and so far I like them! I wouldn't put them on a truck with 33s though because I can feel them almost top out on 35s. It is nice to climb hills again!

As for the elitist attitude: I don't think most Defender owners have this mentality. The only reason this is felt is because of the brand. Yes, RRs and LR3s are luxury trucks which is directly associated with elitist. But as a whole I feel Defender owners are not. We as a whole are cautious of modifying our vehicles only because of the rarity of them.

For instance, Jeeps are a dime a dozen in the US. They are inexpensive with plenty of spare parts. And we see plenty of highly modified Jeeps out there. Land Rovers are rare in the States, and rarer is the Defender, so I think most of us are cautious in modifying a 30k+ 15 year old truck that we still are paying off!

I think Buck's truck is awesome and I am glad he set it up for his type of wheeling. Its better to see him enjoying what the truck is made for than not seeing people use them. And we all owe a lot to Dave, because when someone in a buggy gives us a funny look for being an “elitist” we can always know there is one of us willing to make the Land Rover mark more badass then we imagined.
That is really, really nice of you to say. Thanks.

Just to prove that I am not all angry all the time:

There is a gear oil out there that has been proven to actually prevent shock related failures. It works like a "thrust block" of sorts. As well as reducing wear on Arb's and gears. It's Amsoil Severe Gear 250 synthetic. It goes for a staggering $16 a quart. But, it actually works. I would recommend that you guys that go the GBR way and wheel give it a look. Those gears are right on the edge of what they can take all the time on 35's, so every trick is worth exploring.
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