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  #141  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
You know it was coming.... Hitler reacts to the DC100 reveal...

Hands down the funniest 4 minutes I've ever seen...
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  #142  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 02:23 PM
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awesome
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  #143  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 03:05 PM
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Land Rover simply doesn't get it anymore. Sadly, I don't think they ever will get back to their roots on this one. All they need to do is make it look like a Defender on the outside. Make it look similar, and that's it. Everyone will be happy that it looks how it should. They can fill it with gizmos that break, just line the rest of the line up, but at least it will look like a Defender, not a Japanese turd.
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  #144  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc
You know it was coming.... Hitler reacts to the DC100 reveal...

Dude that is some funny shit right there!
I haven't teared from laughing so much in a long time! Thanks for that!
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  #145  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnpalmer View Post
Land Rover simply doesn't get it anymore. Sadly, I don't think they ever will get back to their roots on this one. All they need to do is make it look like a Defender on the outside. Make it look similar, and that's it. Everyone will be happy that it looks how it should. They can fill it with gizmos that break, just line the rest of the line up, but at least it will look like a Defender, not a Japanese turd.
What would be the point? How many people in this country would run out to buy a 1980's style Defender? Not to mention the various EPA and DOT requirements.
Better to let the line end without reducing it to a pale imitation of what it was. I sure don't want to see what happened to the Humvee happen to the Defender.
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  #146  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 09:01 PM
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The Hitler reaction video is freakin brilliant.
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  #147  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevkon View Post
What would be the point? How many people in this country would run out to buy a 1980's style Defender? Not to mention the various EPA and DOT requirements.
Better to let the line end without reducing it to a pale imitation of what it was. I sure don't want to see what happened to the Humvee happen to the Defender.
I see where you're coming with this, but look at what Jeep is doing with the wrangler... It is selling very well worldwide and still maintains what the wrangler should be as a modern vehicle... I feel like Land Rover thinks every vehicle in there line up should be ultra luxury when that's why they separated the Land Rover and Range Rover lines in the US.
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  #148  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 10:50 PM
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As far as I can tell not one of the major designers at Rover has ever been off road, never mnd an expert at it. Basically the company is a lost cause for our needs.
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  #149  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roverguy View Post
I see where you're coming with this, but look at what Jeep is doing with the wrangler... It is selling very well worldwide and still maintains what the wrangler should be as a modern vehicle... I feel like Land Rover thinks every vehicle in there line up should be ultra luxury when that's why they separated the Land Rover and Range Rover lines in the US.
Look at what the Jeep sells for, that accounts for a lot of it's sales. Land Rover could never compete with Jeep one to one. Look at the MSRP of a Defender in 1997 vs a Jeep. Had the demand been there, I'm sure LR would have made the neccessary DOT requirements. It wasn't, so they didn't.
Let's face it, the SUV market is completely different than it was 25yrs ago. The suv is now the family station wagon without the fake wood panelling. There really is no compelling reason for any mfr to be concerned with off roading. On the other hand, there is every reason to make an suv comfortable and luxurious. It's a fashion statement.
As I said previously, there is one hope for the ole Defender and that is military and commercial sales. It would be nice if the UK would, for national defense (and possibly economic) reasons, encourage continued production of the Defender in the UK. I doubt that will happen, but there is a chance Tata will somehow split off the Defender line.
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  #150  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevkon View Post
Look at what the Jeep sells for, that accounts for a lot of it's sales. Land Rover could never compete with Jeep one to one. Look at the MSRP of a Defender in 1997 vs a Jeep. Had the demand been there, I'm sure LR would have made the neccessary DOT requirements. It wasn't, so they didn't..
They could compete, but they would have to WANT IT. They could make a better vehicle for the same price point, but they would have to WANT IT. It would mean a gigantic profit and growth for Land Rover if they did it, but they need vision. They need to want to take on the market and win.

They already have the image and history. Make a good vehicle that people really believe can go off road in the same price point as the Wrangler and they would make money hand over fist.

Unfortunately, there is no vision at Rover. There are no real designers that understand off road.
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  #151  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 10:43 AM
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Who is going off road? I mean how much of a market segment is this in the USA? I see a ton of SUVs on the road and in the showroom, but what do any of them have to do with offroading? It's just not a big enough market to justify the enormous costs of production and tooling. The whole reason Jeep JK is so popular is the combination of price and the redesign of the vehicle making it more of a comfortable road vehicle. Out of all of the JK's I see constantly only a very few see any type of offroading. The market is just not there and the economics for Tata and Land Rover aren't either. Do you really want to see a new Defender designed for shopping mall excursions? Do you really want to see a new Defender that is all plastic and cheapened so that it has more market share? I know I don't. Any Defender owner should be glad that they still have a vehicle that has prestige and hasn't become just another one of the many expensive ( or cheap) SUVs on the roads today.
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  #152  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 11:28 AM
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Come on out to San Diego, I'll show you more off-roaded Jeeps than you know what to do with. Maybe it's a regional thing, I dunno.

I agree with John, the market is there for sure, but LR has to want to compete. But since their focus groups are current LR owners who have Sports and LR4s, we are going to get a blingmobile.
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  #153  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
Come on out to San Diego, I'll show you more off-roaded Jeeps than you know what to do with. Maybe it's a regional thing, I dunno.

I agree with John, the market is there for sure, but LR has to want to compete. But since their focus groups are current LR owners who have Sports and LR4s, we are going to get a blingmobile.

What do you suppose that market amounts to in percentage of total sales? Jeep made that assessment and moved away from the sparten Wrangler to the much more road orientated JK. And they did that while keeping the price pretty much the same which means they ecomized everywhere they could.
The Defender is old school and still built that way. As bad as that D100 is, I don't even want to think of what a D90 would be like if it had to compete with a Jeep JK.
Like it or not, Land Rover made the decision long ago to concentrate on the higher end SUV market using their reputation earned by the Series and Defender trucks. That's what Tat paid for, the marque.
As I said before, I'd rather see this ugly D100 driving around and know that it has absolutely nothing to do with the Defender than see a pos D90 replica attempting to pose as what it once was.
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  #154  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 02:32 PM
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I guess we will have to agree to disagree... and I should clarify when I say the Wrangler I am specifically targeting the Rubicon.

There is no reason there can't be a blingmobile D100 a la G-Wagen. Let LR charge 60 to 100k for it, people will buy it just like the G-Wagen has a wait list at 110k. But then also make the spartan D100 that is the competition for the Rubicon.
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  #155  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
Come on out to San Diego, I'll show you more off-roaded Jeeps than you know what to do with. Maybe it's a regional thing, I dunno.

I agree with John, the market is there for sure, but LR has to want to compete. But since their focus groups are current LR owners who have Sports and LR4s, we are going to get a blingmobile.
Same in LA. Just check out the number of offroad accessories available for the JK and you will see that these trucks are being wheeled and wheeled hard. No doubt plenty of them will never go offroad but the same is true for a lot of the 90s on this board.
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  #156  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 07:42 PM
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As someone who has both a Range Rover Sport or "blingmobile" as it's being referred to and a 110 or two, I don't really see where the DC100 fits in the Land Rover/Range Rover product line. The entry level slot is filled by the Freelander, the LR3/4 fills the middle and the Range Rover Sport and Range Rover clearly sit at the top. If the DC100 is priced to compete with the Sport, it will lose....badly.

Change for the sake of change is not progress. Fundamentally, the Defender is a niche product the way the Jeep is a niche product. That is not a bad thing. I would rather have a defined niche to exploit with the potential for upside than a generic product to compete with the masses mid-high end SUVs.
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  #157  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 08:41 PM
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I think a new Defender could easily be priced below $50k. The new Evoque is loaded with way more electronic gizmos than the new Def would need and it starts at $44k. Land Rover is not in the market to sell $30k to $35k cars so a Defender around $50 would be about right. More than I would like to pay but that's the LR wheelhouse. It won't compete with the Sport but maybe the LR4.
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  #158  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 08:43 PM
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Jerry McGovern must resign!!

Others have said it, and I must agree.

Jerry is so hellbent on making the Freelander a success in the states, he's willing to put any badge on it. The Evoque looks like a Freelander with a hint of Range Rover.

This DC100 looks like Freelander with a hint of Mini (for cuteness) and Kia Soul (for hipness).

The Defender wasn't even considered for inspiration. Period.

It's time for a new Design Chief, Mr. Tata!!!
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  #159  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kevkon View Post
Who is going off road?
Nobody, that is NOT the point.

People buy Wranglers because they know that they could if they wanted to. THAT is all that matters, perception. They do not buy them because they are good on the road. They buy into a perception. Land Rover could do it and do it better for the same price, if they wanted.
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  #160  
Old September 4th, 2011, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Nobody, that is NOT the point.

People buy Wranglers because they know that they could if they wanted to. THAT is all that matters, perception. They do not buy them because they are good on the road. They buy into a perception. Land Rover could do it and do it better for the same price, if they wanted.
So you would be happy if Tata produced an EPA/ DOT compliant Defender that would cost under 30k and only had the perception of being a true offroad vehicle?
Sorry, I'll stick with my 94 and leave the perceptions to others.
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