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  #121  
Old September 1st, 2011, 12:59 PM
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Julien Dalbin
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This is all good, we know when it's coming, we have time to stock up parts and seat to see the value of our Ds going up .
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  #122  
Old September 1st, 2011, 01:35 PM
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Does it come with a can of New Coke?
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I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
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  #123  
Old September 1st, 2011, 01:39 PM
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I honestly think if they actually bring that unit as a Defender here, it will appeal to the crossover customer and help us value wise with our real defenders
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  #124  
Old September 1st, 2011, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbier View Post
I honestly think if they actually bring that unit as a Defender here, it will appeal to the crossover customer and help us value wise with our real defenders
I asked some young MBA-types at our firm to give me a SWOT analysis of a reborn Defender in the US - and while it's not complete yet, three of them think that it's going to jack up values of the "classic" NAS defenders. I'm still on the fence.
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  #125  
Old September 1st, 2011, 03:59 PM
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Due to excessive negative response Tata has released a new Defender model for 2012;
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2090/...c095fb0383.jpg
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  #126  
Old September 1st, 2011, 05:54 PM
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I went to the facebook site and I don't think I read one positive comment.
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2016 Range Rover TD6
2013 Raptor F150 SVT
1997 D-90 #1867 (sold) :(
2012 Black 110 :) In OZ still
2011 LR4 "Metropolis" (sold) :(
2011 Raptor F150 SVT (sold) :(
2007 Shelby GT500 (sold)
2007 LR3 (sold)
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  #127  
Old September 1st, 2011, 06:00 PM
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Neill Thornton
1984 D90 300 Tdi / 1965 Series IIA
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This is the long rant I just left on the "Tell us what you really think" thread on FB.....

OK Land Rover, here is some serious feedback that isn't just a rant from the owner of a 1965 Series IIA, 1984 Ninety, and a 2005 LR3 who uses these vehicles off-road constantly. Not "a little gravel on the pavement" off-road, but the kind of off-road that you see on the posters in the dealership. The body panel creasing, brush pin-striping, skid plate denting kind of off-road...

First - We understand that you are under the gun by various government agencies around the world to comply with byzantine rules regarding safety, emissions, etc. Some things *have* to be included in a new model such as engine electronics for emissions, Dynamic Stability Control, etc. We also get that there are Airbag, Crumple Zone, and even Pedestrian Safety rules. But please don't make that your cop-out excuse for hideous design.

Second - Only add "optional extras" that either are required by law (above) or seriously improve off-road performace. Resist the temptation to festoon electronic gizmos everywhere a la LR3/4. This truck has ONE purpose... get into the bush, and get back. We WANT basic rugged design. If I wanted something wrapped in leather you have 5 other models to choose from.

Third - Suspension - I know you really really want to use that T5 chassis. Independent suspension doesn't have to be the death knell everyone says it is, but you better make sure we have massive articulation, protected stub axles, and the icing on the cake would be locking diffs front and rear and sway bar disconnects. Jeep figured this out long ago. DO NOT even THINK of EAS. Springs only!!!!

Fourth - Drivetrain - Simple and rugged. Electronics are a modern requirement and we get that, but waterproof the ECU, make it easy to add a true snorkel, and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE offer a Turbodiesel engine in the USA. You have NO IDEA how bad people want that here. My Ninety has a 300 Tdi in it and I get Jeep guys EVERY DAY telling me how much they lust over it.

Fifth - Body - Scrap whatever the hell you were working on. That is BEYOND hideous. Remember the "Passport" ads where pictures of land rovers were made up of immigration stamps? The Defender shape is so universally recognized you could tell what it was, and it was just a bunch of stamps!!! Why are you so convinced it needs to dissapear??? I know manual assembly of all the panels is heavy manual labor, so make it more modular. I assume you are sticking with the T5 so that's fine, just make a tub/seat box unified aluminum body piece, a bulkhead, and each front wing be single units. That's 4 things that would need bolting, and the single tub/door frame and bulkhead mean good side imact protection.

Sixth - Protectability - The sides need to be flat going up, so they can be protected by rock sliders and nerf bars under the doors. Forget all the plastic blingy trim. Keep the simple exposed metal. Figure out the MINIMUM amound of crappy nose slope to meet the pedestrian requirement, and then make that thing REMOVEABLE so the aftermarket can give us a true rugged bumper. Which leads me to....

Seventh - Aftermarket - One of the greatest things about the FJ and Jeep Rubicon is the massive aftermarket upgrades selection. Get ARB, Terrafirma, Equipe, etc in there BEFORE you launch so that when you do pull the curtain back at the reveal, they already have things to bolt on.

Eighth - Interior - Simple and Rugged. Simple and Rugged. Simple and Rugged. Are you getting it? Have the padded dash and steering wheel, add the air bags, any other minor safety things, and then STOP. Carpeting should be an OPTION. Back tub should be BARE. Waterproof the speakers for the basic stereo that doesn't even have moving parts becuase who the hell even listens to real CDs anymore? Have an iPod jack with a rubber stopper to block dust and dirt. Roll-up windows. MAYBE keyless entry can be an OPTION. Cloth seats with easily removable covers that can be washed. If you REALLY want to bling the thing out, make it a package and call it the "Chelsea Tractor Edition". Big cup holders like the ones in the door of my LR3 that hold big bottles of water or Kleen Kanteens.

Ninth - For god sakes gives us 16 inch rims with high profile tires. Probably the biggest insults was that concept rendering with rubber bands for tires. Out here in the desert we HAVE to air down to ~12 PSI or things go bad. How am I going to do that with blingtastic 22" dubs?

Tenth - If you bring someone in that hasn't seen it, and can't IMMEDIATELY recognize it as a Defender you have failed. This goes back to the name "PROJECT ICON" and point Five above
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  #128  
Old September 1st, 2011, 07:14 PM
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martin
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Desperately hope the design director is correct about it being a four year journey in design before it hits production, and that four year journey involves entirely changing what it looks like.

Why on earth would Land Rover not just look at the Wrangler? It's been completely modernised, yet it's immediately recognisable as what it is. This new thing? Absolutely not. They could of atleast put the door hinges on the outside or even have put some rivets on side panels to make it have something in common with the NAS and ROW Defender.

It also looks like it will be missing the one really important thing about the Defender we all know: the ability to easily maintain and modify.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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  #129  
Old September 1st, 2011, 08:08 PM
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Christian
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I'm just happy I bought a NAS 110 two months ago and not now. I bet Copley is about to sell every D-??? they have in inventory!

This is so good for the NAS owners community.
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  #130  
Old September 1st, 2011, 08:11 PM
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john
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpodgorski View Post
Desperately hope the design director is correct about it being a four year journey in design before it hits production, and that four year journey involves entirely changing what it looks like.

Why on earth would Land Rover not just look at the Wrangler? It's been completely modernised, yet it's immediately recognisable as what it is. This new thing? Absolutely not. They could of atleast put the door hinges on the outside or even have put some rivets on side panels to make it have something in common with the NAS and ROW Defender.

It also looks like it will be missing the one really important thing about the Defender we all know: the ability to easily maintain and modify.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Exactly!!. The RR was in the shop and the only rental car they had to give me was a 2011 4 door wrangler ST. The way the top retracts alone was enough to make me want one. 30 seconds and its topless.

My daughter got in and said "Dad this is the best car ever why do we have to give it back!?" Seeing this thing may cause me to convert. Not to mention the part about the RR being in the shop for the 3rd time with a leaky radiator. Theyve already replaced it under warranty twice!!
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  #131  
Old September 1st, 2011, 09:25 PM
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Greg Chin Sr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
Does it come with a can of New Coke?
No, but you get a couple dime bags of crack. Cuz you gotta be high to buy one.
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  #132  
Old September 1st, 2011, 10:26 PM
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Jason Lavender
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I hate this new car, award it no points, and may God have mercy on it's soul.
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  #133  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 03:56 AM
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Matt Hurst
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lets be honest- if this thing didnt have the word defender attached to it (let alone the words land rover) none of us would give this thing the time of day. Put a nissan emblem on it or a chevy bow tie and you wouldnt look twice at it or waste your time posting a comment. Saying "ya i kind of like it or its ok" is a lie- you like defender, you like land rovers- not this thing. think about it?
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  #134  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 07:36 AM
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kevin
1994 D90 300tdi #730, SIII 88
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None of this matters much simply because keeping the Defender in true form would preclude it from our market for 25yrs. To have a new D90 that could be sold here requires a complete re-design and to make that worthwhile means attracting buyers whose only knowledge of Land Rover is from watching Daktari.
Let's face it, the age of the simple rugged vehicle epitomized by the LR Series which evolved into the Defender is over. There will be some, as this forum reflects, that will still look for what Land Rover use to stand for, but the larger market craves something much different and the government requires something much different.
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  #135  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 10:21 AM
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Don Bunnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
This is the long rant I just left on the "Tell us what you really think" thread on FB....
Lots of great ideas on that navydevildoc. I agree with them all. Especially ones like the aftermarket - read any US off road mag and there is a Jeep 4 door project going on not to mention ad after ad with the Jeep 4 door. I know people around here buy them because they will see a truck or 2 with some mods. Most likely they will keep it stock but it's the trucks that stand out that make buyers look and take note.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpodgorski View Post
Why on earth would Land Rover not just look at the Wrangler? It's been completely modernised, yet it's immediately recognisable as what it is. This new thing? Absolutely not. They could of atleast put the door hinges on the outside or even have put some rivets on side panels to make it have something in common with the NAS and ROW Defender.

It also looks like it will be missing the one really important thing about the Defender we all know: the ability to easily maintain and modify.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
Exactly!!. The RR was in the shop and the only rental car they had to give me was a 2011 4 door wrangler ST. The way the top retracts alone was enough to make me want one. 30 seconds and its topless.

My daughter got in and said "Dad this is the best car ever why do we have to give it back!?" Seeing this thing may cause me to convert. Not to mention the part about the RR being in the shop for the 3rd time with a leaky radiator. Theyve already replaced it under warranty twice!!
I've mentioned the Jeep JK 4 door in my previous post but you guys make some great points. Why not have the hinges on the outside? Why not a soft top with a top that can retract in 30 secs? If Jeep can do the job they did with the JK why can't Land Rover? Who are they trying to compete with - Hummer H3's? The Mini Crossman? F**king Kia's? Are they looking at their customer base that are pimping Range Rover's with 22" for the mall? Does Italy, Europe and the ROW really want to be like Snookie, Ronnie, and The Sitch and drive Esclade looking cars?

Jeezuz it's fustrating - Land Rover can have another really great rig. I know they have a bunch of constraints like safety and chassis but after driving my bro-in-laws JK, the Jeep just doesn't have the feel like my 90 has. But holy crap those JK's are selling like mad around here. I see a temp tag on one almost every week.
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  #136  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 10:44 AM
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Charles Galpin
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Given the bottom line for Land Rover is to sell cars it is surprising they haven't looked at why JK's are selling like hot cakes. But sadly I think these designs show *WE* are not their target market. And maybe neither are JK buyers (in their mind)
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  #137  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 11:00 AM
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Gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
This is the long rant I just left on the "Tell us what you really think" thread on FB.....

OK Land Rover, here is some serious feedback that isn't just a rant from the owner of a 1965 Series IIA, 1984 Ninety, and a 2005 LR3 who uses these vehicles off-road constantly. Not "a little gravel on the pavement" off-road, but the kind of off-road that you see on the posters in the dealership. The body panel creasing, brush pin-striping, skid plate denting kind of off-road...

First - We understand that you are under the gun by various government agencies around the world to comply with byzantine rules regarding safety, emissions, etc. Some things *have* to be included in a new model such as engine electronics for emissions, Dynamic Stability Control, etc. We also get that there are Airbag, Crumple Zone, and even Pedestrian Safety rules. But please don't make that your cop-out excuse for hideous design.

Second - Only add "optional extras" that either are required by law (above) or seriously improve off-road performace. Resist the temptation to festoon electronic gizmos everywhere a la LR3/4. This truck has ONE purpose... get into the bush, and get back. We WANT basic rugged design. If I wanted something wrapped in leather you have 5 other models to choose from.

Third - Suspension - I know you really really want to use that T5 chassis. Independent suspension doesn't have to be the death knell everyone says it is, but you better make sure we have massive articulation, protected stub axles, and the icing on the cake would be locking diffs front and rear and sway bar disconnects. Jeep figured this out long ago. DO NOT even THINK of EAS. Springs only!!!!

Fourth - Drivetrain - Simple and rugged. Electronics are a modern requirement and we get that, but waterproof the ECU, make it easy to add a true snorkel, and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE offer a Turbodiesel engine in the USA. You have NO IDEA how bad people want that here. My Ninety has a 300 Tdi in it and I get Jeep guys EVERY DAY telling me how much they lust over it.

Fifth - Body - Scrap whatever the hell you were working on. That is BEYOND hideous. Remember the "Passport" ads where pictures of land rovers were made up of immigration stamps? The Defender shape is so universally recognized you could tell what it was, and it was just a bunch of stamps!!! Why are you so convinced it needs to dissapear??? I know manual assembly of all the panels is heavy manual labor, so make it more modular. I assume you are sticking with the T5 so that's fine, just make a tub/seat box unified aluminum body piece, a bulkhead, and each front wing be single units. That's 4 things that would need bolting, and the single tub/door frame and bulkhead mean good side imact protection.

Sixth - Protectability - The sides need to be flat going up, so they can be protected by rock sliders and nerf bars under the doors. Forget all the plastic blingy trim. Keep the simple exposed metal. Figure out the MINIMUM amound of crappy nose slope to meet the pedestrian requirement, and then make that thing REMOVEABLE so the aftermarket can give us a true rugged bumper. Which leads me to....

Seventh - Aftermarket - One of the greatest things about the FJ and Jeep Rubicon is the massive aftermarket upgrades selection. Get ARB, Terrafirma, Equipe, etc in there BEFORE you launch so that when you do pull the curtain back at the reveal, they already have things to bolt on.

Eighth - Interior - Simple and Rugged. Simple and Rugged. Simple and Rugged. Are you getting it? Have the padded dash and steering wheel, add the air bags, any other minor safety things, and then STOP. Carpeting should be an OPTION. Back tub should be BARE. Waterproof the speakers for the basic stereo that doesn't even have moving parts becuase who the hell even listens to real CDs anymore? Have an iPod jack with a rubber stopper to block dust and dirt. Roll-up windows. MAYBE keyless entry can be an OPTION. Cloth seats with easily removable covers that can be washed. If you REALLY want to bling the thing out, make it a package and call it the "Chelsea Tractor Edition". Big cup holders like the ones in the door of my LR3 that hold big bottles of water or Kleen Kanteens.

Ninth - For god sakes gives us 16 inch rims with high profile tires. Probably the biggest insults was that concept rendering with rubber bands for tires. Out here in the desert we HAVE to air down to ~12 PSI or things go bad. How am I going to do that with blingtastic 22" dubs?

Tenth - If you bring someone in that hasn't seen it, and can't IMMEDIATELY recognize it as a Defender you have failed. This goes back to the name "PROJECT ICON" and point Five above
I hope writing this epistle made you feel better, because that will likely be about the only benefit you'll derive from it. Fact of the matter is, the segment of the market that we as a community are in (and care about) matters not whit to LR. It is too small. The soccer Mom mall crawler set is the target. We can whine and bitch about it all we want - and maybe there is some therapeutic value to that - but the reality is the D we know and love is gone forever. LR doesn't care about its heritage anymore. Let it go. All we can do is appreciate, and preserve, the legends we already have. .
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  #138  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 11:35 AM
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Neill Thornton
1984 D90 300 Tdi / 1965 Series IIA
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You know it was coming.... Hitler reacts to the DC100 reveal...

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  #139  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 11:52 AM
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Greg Liebig
95 D90
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"It's poop." lmao
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  #140  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 12:43 PM
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Philip Marshall
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I start at the land rover design shop on Monday :)

Rofl
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