Father found guilty of murder due to mods - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old December 18th, 2008, 11:51 AM
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Ryan
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Father found guilty of murder due to mods

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...ged_Into_River
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  #2  
Old December 18th, 2008, 12:31 PM
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I love the Brits but they are friggin "by the book" maniacs. I look at the UK LR boards and every mod is followed by six pages of "You would have to register it as a "Q" reg" and then they talk the person out of doing whatever they were inquiring about. having to call your insurance company because you change wheels and add a snorkle is nanny state bullshite.

Like a stock 110 would not have just as high of a center of gravity and IMHO would have ended up in the drink as well.

End of rant.
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  #3  
Old December 18th, 2008, 12:58 PM
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I think you'll find its death by dangerous driving, not murder.
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  #4  
Old December 18th, 2008, 01:09 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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Sheesh...I wonder what they would do to me. I don't even have half the floor boards in place, or trans tunnel! At least I only drive it across the street every day from the parking lot into the shop and back...
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  #5  
Old December 18th, 2008, 01:42 PM
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Damn, its a shame Ted Kennedy didn't live in England.
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  #6  
Old December 18th, 2008, 02:13 PM
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"As a result, the Land Rover was made up of parts from four different vehicles."

That's it?
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  #7  
Old December 18th, 2008, 02:15 PM
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Only four!, If you count all the used parts on my trucks I have about 30 vehicles sitting in my driveway.
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  #8  
Old December 18th, 2008, 02:20 PM
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Javier Velador
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My guess is that they are sending a message: modify your vehicles responsibly.

Many of us install taller springs/shocks, taller tires and yeah, it changes the dynamics completely. But when you start adding shoddy bits that affect safety, or neglecting safety-related repairs, then there's an issue.

The best rule of thumb IMO should be, if it's safety related, don't skimp.

Still, no one intends to get into car accidents. No one can anticipate a minibus heading right at you. Even 'safe' vehicles have been known to roll over under the right conditions.

I feel for him. Losing a child is the worst kind of pain. Losing more than one and in his case, four? My heart goes out to them all.
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  #9  
Old December 18th, 2008, 03:02 PM
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Either way, it's sad. As a father, I cringe at the thought of any of my mods being unsafe for my son. If I was stupid in the way I built my Land Rover or cut corners, then I should pay the price. Sometimes stupid people need to go to jail.
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  #10  
Old December 18th, 2008, 03:30 PM
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It is very sad. Sad that this man has to be without four of his precious children, sad that this had to drag through the court system because obviously someone felt the need to blame someone else for the deaths. I have lost a child and I can most definitely say there is no sentence that will be worse than the suffering that he and his family endure each day without their children.
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  #11  
Old December 18th, 2008, 03:42 PM
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Ok, but what does that have to do with this case? This poor chap has been made an example of for doing things that are quite common in LR circles. The four vehicles comprising his LR donated the chassis, engine, trans, and rear axle. WTF is dangerous about that? The prosecution made normal, harmless things into issues in order to convince the laypeople in the jury that the condition of the vehicle was a major contributing cause the the result of the incident. From where I sit this looks like a witch hunt. Having been on juries I have seen how prosecution works. When a case is weak it relies on speculation and misinformation carefully orchestrated to mislead the jury. he must have had a crap lawyer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep Rescue
Sometimes stupid people need to go to jail.
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  #12  
Old December 18th, 2008, 04:08 PM
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The problem with sitting here and judging these things is that reality and what the media reports have nothing to do with each other. Perhaps the vehicle was truly in an unsafe condition. Perhaps it was not. Nobody is going to figure that out from media reports.....
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  #13  
Old December 18th, 2008, 04:22 PM
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Yeah, this case is a load of BS really. take a look at The thread on LR4x4 to see how us Brits whine and moan at everything.

Bottom line is (from what i can glean from the press and other UK forums)....

chap was driving down the narrow road in his "modified" 110.

bloke drives the other way, in a minibus with trailer, doesn't pull over (admits this in court), Gresh "pulls over" onto the bank, 110 subsequently rolls into the drink. kids drown. (well, 4/7ths of them do)

Gresh goes to court, prosecution have a field day because

1) it's a 4x4, and these kill the planet/flowers/small children/the disabled/mother Theresa
2) The bloke doesn't drive a prius/honda etc
3) prosecution claim that the vehicle is "built up out of others" GASP HORROR!
4) his home mechanics result in different front brake calipers fitted, drivers seat bolts loose, rear axle trailling arm broken off.

prosecution claim that the "arm broke off due to rust", although they don't prove that it happened at the time of the roll over.

This chap openly had a full umpteen page thread on LROi forum showing how he broke his old chassis in two, and replaced it with a "second hand one which i changed the serial number in".

Here in the UK it's quite strict. yes, an SVA is needed and usualy a Q plate is issued. sounds anal, but it stops death traps like the above 110 being on the road, maintained by people, above, who don't really know what they're up to.

me, sorry? not really. i didn't know him, i'd have the same attitude if he were driving a porsche/honda/ford etc, lack of maintenance is no excuse.

Lots of the UK forums are "up in arms " about it, the LR4x4 one especially, has now locked the thread because people "arn't supporting this guy". funnily enough i quit being a forumeer of the LR4x4 forum due to it's over moderation today. As he "drives a LR" we're all apparently supposed to think that although the 110 wasn't that roadworthy, we should ignore it.

Trouble is, what happened will only give our current government more ammunition to try and bring us in line with Europe and ban all manner of vehicle modifications unless it's factory apporover, and those things are boring! tyres no more than 10% bigger than factory? no winch bumpers? no rollcages? no long travel suspension?

no thanks!!
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  #14  
Old December 19th, 2008, 12:36 AM
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Jim Cheney
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Yeah, all the armchair lawyering over at lr4x4 (I haven't looked in a while) is pretty irritating. You can't even read the threads for information because there are so many ignorant people outraged over there. I don't understand how people can form opinions from hear-say and news reports. There's a lot more to reality...
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  #15  
Old December 19th, 2008, 08:51 AM
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It is terrible if he did things to his truck that contributed to what happened and made it unsafe. I could never put my children in my truck if I did not use safe parts and constantly check it out to make sure everything is safe on it. That said ,sentencing him to whatever will never make him suffer more than he does daily. Granted the minibus being in the way contributed, but from what I have read the way he maintained his truck was an accident waiting to happen. One should never ever risk the safety of children that way.
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  #16  
Old December 19th, 2008, 11:44 AM
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how can one feel sad for a person like this

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle2053788.ece

he left the hospital the night 3 of the four children were dying to travel 50mls to go drinking with a buddy
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  #17  
Old December 19th, 2008, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy salmon
how can one feel sad for a person like this

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle2053788.ece

he left the hospital the night 3 of the four children were dying to travel 50mls to go drinking with a buddy
I had not seen that article yet, may they both rot in hell. Both of them risking their children in an unsafe vehicle, and then going to drink while their children lay dying, despicable. I can't even put into words how disgusting it is. My daughter died 11 1/2 years ago due to an arrogant doctor. I can't even describe the levels of hell that I unleashed upon him and that he still suffers for to this day. I hope someone where ever he gets sentenced has a sizable present for his rear end everyday.
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  #18  
Old December 19th, 2008, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy salmon
how can one feel sad for a person like this

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle2053788.ece

he left the hospital the night 3 of the four children were dying to travel 50mls to go drinking with a buddy
Okay, apparently he and his wife are not right. In this case, I have no respect for them, or sympathy toward them. They have clearly acted despicably, and if the story in the link above is correct, they seem like the scum of the earth...

However, the ruling still worries me as an enthusiast, because I fear that it could easily be twisted and used as a 'precedent' to convict any one of us on this board in a similar situation, even if we had only done something as mundane as changing the shocks, or tires. Am I the only one worried about the more far reaching possibilities of this?
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  #19  
Old December 19th, 2008, 03:09 PM
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The Sun is pretty tabloid-ish, so I'd take it with a grain of salt, but I can say for sure that this all makes me want to run out to my truck, check all my torque values, and put a little dot of yellow paint on all the fasteners.
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  #20  
Old December 19th, 2008, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepeytr
However, the ruling still worries me as an enthusiast, because I fear that it could easily be twisted and used as a 'precedent' to convict any one of us on this board in a similar situation, even if we had only done something as mundane as changing the shocks, or tires. Am I the only one worried about the more far reaching possibilities of this?
No you aren't the only one. It is a slippery slope. Right now I only have a DII, but have future plans of a 90 and a Rangie classic. I am so overzealous about maintenance, but in the eyes of non-enthusiasts I can see their looks of even just my Disco.
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