Extremely Delayed Delivery of a 110 from Vendor(Need Advice) - Page 8 - Defender Source
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  #141  
Old March 9th, 2015, 08:53 AM
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Russell
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Well said, Bill. There comes a point where it is throwing good money over bad. Is this the status of the 110 now? I see the rusted hole in the bulkhead was patched/covered/repaired/replaced. Do you have any idea if the surrounding metal was cut out and new welded in? Many have been burned by a quick fiberglass job only to have the rust make its presence known a short time later. Not implying what was done here. But worth asking the question for all the rusted out areas.
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  #142  
Old March 9th, 2015, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
.....it is hard to understand the feeling of being trapped and overwhelmed by having a shop full of work and 2 guys out with the flu sort of thing or worse, they get jobs somewhere else and leave you hanging with no progress to show.

The real question is do you have faith that this 110 will ever get completed..

You need to be able to work all of this out with David....
As a consumer, I really don't care about how a vendor "feels". Try calling in sick, and say you don't "feel" like working today.
We have all been in tight situations with timelines and expectations that may be impossible. Family, work, community, these things happen. Honesty and communication are the key. When Ceyon and the forum are spoon fed pablum about how hard a vendor is trying to self correct after many issues, everyone gave another chance. And now we see the results. There was no resolution by the vendor for Ceyon. Just another delay, lack of comms, and excuses.

It COULD get finished, but is Ceyon so turned off by the whole experience that he will finish?

As for working it out, there may never be satisfaction. Hopefully it does work out in your favor.

The horror stories resonate with me. I have a 110 in for complete rebuild. Good reviews on my vendor of choice, but recent rumblings and a break in a partnership with a well known and respected D90Source vendor do have me concerned. I also received a PM from a member who had a truck done by my vendor, and it basically disaggregated on his drive home, repairs north of 10K. All due to shoddy workmanship and improperly installed items. Hopefully not a common occurance. I will pre-delivery inspect, and hire another shop/expert to come with me to ensure truck is built to spec and built well. I will insist any issues be resolved within a short time frame. Months of finger pointing via email is not going to happen. If there are issues, my attorney will address them immediately.

What is it Uncle Douglas says about experience? Yeah, he nailed it.
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  #143  
Old March 9th, 2015, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGH View Post
As a consumer, I really don't care about how a vendor "feels"... Hopefully not a common occurance. I will pre-delivery inspect, and hire another shop/expert to come with me to ensure truck is built to spec and built well. I will insist any issues be resolved within a short time frame. Months of finger pointing via email is not going to happen. If there are issues, my attorney will address them immediately.
As a consumer you don'y care if the vendor looses his wife to an illness that takes half his time for months, has health setbacks, or some other issue that effects all delivery dates???
If you rely on others to evaluate the quality of work and deal with hearsay instead of determining these facts yourself, how do you really know if the build outcome is good or bad?
In the old days people who can't do their own work or judge others work for themselves were called a checkbook mechanic who's only recourse was postering behind a lawyer.

On the flip side, I have seen really poor quality shop workmanship to the point of overflowing with incompetence, so there has to be a balance between the two for the customers sake.

The Rover community in this country is small enough, that a bad experience with a vendor can easily ruin a shop for good.
This could very well be what is happening or has already happened to Urban.
I doubt many forum members will deal with Urban after the experiences of Ceyon, Adam, Bobby, and all the others.
Anyone reading a bad experience thread like this one will also skip using Urban.

Ceyon, I hope you work this out.

KGH, I sincerely wish you positive outcomes with your shop as well.
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  #144  
Old March 9th, 2015, 12:47 PM
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Chris
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Sorry the update and potential outcome is not what you and the membership were hoping for.
Were you aware that the vehicle has not been MOT'd since June 2009? The reasons are quite clear based on the photos. That means 4 years off the road before it even got shipped to the States.
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  #145  
Old March 9th, 2015, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadstone View Post
Sorry the update and potential outcome is not what you and the membership were hoping for.
Were you aware that the vehicle has not been MOT'd since June 2009? The reasons are quite clear based on the photos. That means 4 years off the road before it even got shipped to the States.
Chris, if a vehicle fails the UK inspection due to excessive rust, are the areas marked in yellow? See attached. Not sure if that is by the inspection station or other party.
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  #146  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:20 PM
JehovahNissi77
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Ceyon Woods
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Gentlemen, thanks for the input and guidance. There’s a lot to address. I do have a spot in the garage that is reserved for a driveable Rover. I appreciate the estimation of how long it would realistically take to complete the work base the photos. I was not aware that the vehicle had not had a MOT since 2009.

I knew the 110 would need work. I didn’t think the bulkhead was as bad as it. I had budgeted for ULC to do some minor work prior to delivery such as check/repair the brakes, cooling system and any other safety issues so that I could drive the vehicle from Georgia to North Carolina.

When I saw the vehicle in the winter of 2013 I knew one of the first projects would be to replace either the bulkhead (during a LHD conversion) or the chassis (both were quoted to be around the same price) and I was budgeting and planning to have that work done during the summer of 2014. All this was of course assuming that I had possession of the vehicle during the fall/winter of 2013.

I understand that things happen. I try to treat everyone the way I would want to be treated. I looked at the situation from both the vendor and customer side. Due to the delayed import ULC was not making a profit. (The vehicle was actually imported twice) I thought it was a good gesture for ULC to still provide the vehicle for the amount agreed even though they were not making any more money and had resolved with myself that I would purchase any parts I needed from ULC and have any work the 110 required performed by them. I know it would not make up for the lost profits but it was the best way I could think of to show my appreciation.

The wait seemed to be worth it because ULC offered to do things to the vehicle I would eventually do such as install a TDI and freshen up the body work(corroded sills and cargo area). The pictures on my personal e-mail shows repairs done to the rear cargo area where the front second row seats attach. Those repairs would put me where I anticipated I would have been at this point even though my wife likes the “patina”. She said if I painted it I was more likely to not take it off-road, something we were looking forward to.
I thought worst-case scenario I was getting a driveable project.
I’m not sure how to paste links so I just copied and pasted the original for sale add from this board. It also has a link to the pre-import pictures.



Updated pictures are also at the bottom of the post. These are a few of the ones I received in my e-mail.

1986 110, 5 door, 2.5na $7,500

Hi All,
I have been on a bit of a rampage last week buying 110s! I sold the first 4 already and had planned on keeping this one but I found a hi cap I am lusting after

Right now located in Stoke on Trent with my partner. I own this truck and have the V5 etc...to provide as needed.

1986 110. Overall in good shape but not great shape. The chassis has the normal to slightly less than normal rust. The rear x-member has been replaced and is perfect. Both outriggers are a bit rough and will need to be replaced eventually.

It is right on the line of new chassis. It is fine as is to drive until you get around to a new chassis or could be repaired and more years gotten out of it.

Doors are OK. The ft and 2nd row and all good and not rotted out but need minor to medium repair on bottoms. The rear door is about shot. We can include a repairable rear door at no charge or a discount on a new rear door.

Everything works fine. Truck runs and drives. Nothing really wrong with any system but be aware this is an older 110, not restored and it WILL need work.

The motor is 2.5n and matches the V5 as does the chassis.

No motor issues or tranny issues. It has the Lt77 clunk but not horribly bad.

This is a good price on a very decent truck. If you expect a daily driver please move on. If you want a great base to build up a truck this is much better and much cheaper than many we see here in the shop. It is fully drivable right now.

Upon purchase, Truck can ship within a week and be in the US within 3-4 weeks. Truck is provided in Atlanta with GA tag and title for $7,500. All customs and import issues taken care of. We can help with transport to your location.

Truck is currently in the UK but not scheduled to ship unless it is purchased. At some point we will ship it over there but once it arrives here it will cost a bit more or may not be for sale at all.


We require a 50% deposit to sell the truck to you and set up shipping. 25% of remainder upon shipping and final 25% upon delivery and acceptance here in the US.

More than happy to answer any questions and get specific pictures as needed.

Please e mail us direct.

Go here for PICs:
http://www.urbanlandcruisers.com/pho...105DoorForSale
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  #147  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:25 PM
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The original ad: http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...0-a-44791.html
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  #148  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:26 PM
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Ceyon, your link was taken down. However, this link works: Gallery | Urban Land Cruisers + Land Rovers
I suggest that you copy off photos (while available) should you need them in the future.
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  #149  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Chris, if a vehicle fails the UK inspection due to excessive rust, are the areas marked in yellow? See attached. Not sure if that is by the inspection station or other party.
I cannot confirm that every MOT inspection will do this but in short , yes, the yellow markings are indicative of an MOT failure point. I have heard people refer to it as not a legal requirement but certainly a common practice to mark like this.
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  #150  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:40 PM
JehovahNissi77
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Ceyon Woods
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A few pics that are not on the website. How long do you think it will realistically take to put the vehicle back together and install a motor???
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  #151  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:43 PM
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Good lord. what have they been doing for a year and a half? Based on progress to date. 3 to 4 years more....
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  #152  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by broadstone View Post
I cannot confirm that every MOT inspection will do this but in short , yes, the yellow markings are indicative of an MOT failure point. I have heard people refer to it as not a legal requirement but certainly a common practice to mark like this.
Thanks. That is what I suspected. The side sills were marked as well.


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  #153  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:47 PM
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Learning a lot today. I'm pretty sure the parts in with yellow chalk were identified to be replaced/repaired when the vehicle entered the country prior to me taking initial delivery. Didn't want to drive it like that. I didn't know what the chalk meant at the time but seemed important enough for someone to call attention to it.
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  #154  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JehovahNissi77 View Post
How long do you think it will realistically take to put the vehicle back together and install a motor???
Working steady full time 3-4 months.
Working in a shop with shared resources 6 - 12 months.
Estimates are provided you have all the required parts, including a new frame, rust free bulkhead, LHD dash, new wiring, and so on.
Accumulating, ordering & receiving, parts takes time and could stop the project, so take this into account when estimating your timelines.
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  #155  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
... including a new frame.
They are not replacing the frame.... They are replacing the sills and bulkhead and patchwork quilting some other rust.....

IMO, this truck was too far gone to repair properly in a paid shop environment.
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  #156  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:53 PM
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What a mess. Probably time to lawyer up.
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  #157  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:55 PM
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Ceyon Woods
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The sills weren't originally part of the deal until a few weeks ago but it was some of the body work I wanted attended to. I was planning to find someone local to take care of that once I go the vehicle back to NC.


ULC offered to do the sills as compensation for the delay. The attached pic is when ULC called and recommend that the work be extended to the rear of the vehicle. The work towards the rear of the vehicle would not be compensatory but the price seemed fair considering all the other repairs that were being done to the vehicle.


ULC only intended to do the sills but couldn't in good conscience continue the planned repair leaving this behind. I though that was admirable because it looks like good spot to slap some mesh and body filler.
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  #158  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
They are not replacing the frame.... They are replacing the sills and bulkhead and patchwork quilting some other rust.....

IMO, this truck was too far gone to repair properly in a paid shop environment.
Perhaps Urban isn't replacing the frame, but that frame is in need of being replaced, so when/if he takes it somewhere else and it's this far down, he is MUCH better off with a NEW TDI frame.
If Ceyon was going to pay for repairs and welding on TDI motor mounts, he may as well put that investment into a new frame which at shop labor rates will get him at least half way there.

In other words if you take the price of a new frame and subtract the cost of fixing the old frame and welding on new TDI mounts, Ceyon is better off buying a new frame and having a sold foundation for the new ride.

So we completely agree, John!
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  #159  
Old March 9th, 2015, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Working steady full time 3-4 months.
Working in a shop with shared resources 6 - 12 months.
Estimates are provided you have all the required parts, including a new frame, rust free bulkhead, LHD dash, new wiring, and so on.
Accumulating, ordering & receiving, parts takes time and could stop the project, so take this into account when estimating your timelines.
You're being extremely generous in your estimates. As someone else wrote, it is too far gone for a shop to charge money to a client. The bill will have to be in the 50 grand range when all is done. At least.
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  #160  
Old March 9th, 2015, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
If Ceyon was going to pay for repairs and welding on TDI motor mounts, he may as well put that investment into a new frame which at shop labor rates will get him at least half way there, John.
As I understand it, ULC has already done a bunch of frame repairs and Ceyon is paying for it all.... I'm not really sure what is "good" on this truck. Something that far gone would have been junkyard parts anywhere in the world. Frame is toast, bulkhead is toast, rear tub is toast, etc... God know the condition of the mechanicals.
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