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  #1  
Old October 17th, 2005, 09:54 PM
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I called EE today to ask a question about changing from Heavy Duty Old Man Emu in the rear of my 90 to medium duty. I explained to the guy that I had cones in the rear and he proceeded to tell me to get rid of my cones, that they were rediculous. Although honest, I didn't really appreciate his input on my modifications.
Maybe the cones are rediculous, but he is the first to tell me that. They sure didn't tell me that when I bought them from Rovertym!
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  #2  
Old October 18th, 2005, 01:42 AM
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John and Ho have very strong opinions when it comes to modifications. They also don't pull any punches while voicing them. I have been to their shop and on the trail with them and personally think they are great guys.

I think cones for some of the people on this board would be ridiculous (me being one of them), while for others it might be just the thing. If you call a few more shops, you will get a few more opinions. If the cones are working for you, keep them. After all you're driving the truck, not them.
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  #3  
Old October 18th, 2005, 03:17 AM
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The cones let the axle drop farther with longer shock wich keep the tires on the ground and pushing the vehicle along.. The down side is if the tire is barely touching the ground and the weight of the vehucle shifts to that tire its alot eaiser to roll over because the spring has to travela long way before it produces any force to stop the vehicle from moving. a better although more expensive alternative is to install a locker. I would recomen against a detroit because when you snap an axle it usually takes the locker with it. if you only lightly wheel then a soft/clutch locker would be fine. Soft lockers use clutches that tighten up as they sense wheel slip, the problem is when the strain is to great they act as a open dif. If you intend to go more extreme then get a mechanical locking differntial, these give the strength and operation of a spool but allow the user to disengage them for normal driving. REmember that when you install a locking differential that 100% of available torque is sent to each axle. The original manufacturer never designed the stock axle shafts for this kind of load, so replacing them is mandatory to avoid breakage. Lockers also put alot of strain on the transmission and drive lines, so be easy on them when you drive. IF you go with larger tire size this also changes the amount of strain on the axles and drive train. with open diffs going an inch or 2 bigger will make your vehicle seem like a slug. So if you upgrade to a locker change the gear ratio in the diff, upgrade the shafts and feel free to go bigger on the tires. You also need to change the front and rear ratios at the same time. for example 29" tires on 3.54s to 35" tires on 4.10s will keep the vehicle feeling about the same, and your speedometer will read pretty close to accurate. remember that each change requires you to think of the effect to the whole vehicle.


P.S. To make it short, I would just get rid of the cones unless this is a show vehicle.
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  #4  
Old October 18th, 2005, 07:44 AM
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Michele
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyOval
I called EE today to ask a question about changing from Heavy Duty Old Man Emu in the rear of my 90 to medium duty
Sorry to ask,but what cones got to do with dampers valving?


Just think of the load/handling of the truck and eventually change them if you're not truly satisfied...


(or not?)
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  #5  
Old October 18th, 2005, 07:57 AM
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I have cones! Front and rear, they work fine and I have never rolled my 90. Some like cones, and some don't, it's really just a matter of opinion really, it can make the truck slightly more unstable in some places, but having a tire a foot in the air because the spring is limiting travel can also make things unstable. To be honest, in my experience I have seen more vehicles getting tippy because they have to be rocked to get over something because the tire is up in the air, while I can smoothly cruise through it because I have all 4 tires planted on the ground.
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  #6  
Old October 18th, 2005, 10:08 AM
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EE is rediculous, but so are cones. So there. Mike, the cone does nothing for you. When your tire is on the ground after the axle has left the spring, it is putting 100 or so pounds in contact with the ground max. Has no value other than to look cool. If you want to make the suspension functional, you could get light springs and add airshocks in place of your regular shocks with very little charge. like say 150 PSI. It would give the tire that is away from the spring at least a little value, but I have no idea how well it would work. Other than that, just retain the springs.
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  #7  
Old October 18th, 2005, 10:46 AM
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It's NOT rediculous ......







































It's ridiculous ....
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  #8  
Old October 18th, 2005, 12:44 PM
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There's a very nice article on Expedition Exchange in Land Rover Monthly magazine - sort of explains John and Ho's point of view on truck modifications - which are very similiar to mine by the way.

I personally don't like cones because of the weird noises that they can make as the springs unseat and reseat - a distraction I don't need when I'm negotiating an obstacle - I'm not sure that an unloaded tire is going to provide a whole lot of traction at full droop anyway but I also don't do real extreme stuff with my trucks either. I guess that's why I bought a set of the EE spring retainers (which are really pretty nice by the way - just installed them two weeks ago).

The great thing about these trucks is that there are so many different ways to modify and personalize them
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  #9  
Old October 18th, 2005, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
EE is rediculous, but so are cones. So there. Mike, the cone does nothing for you. When your tire is on the ground after the axle has left the spring, it is putting 100 or so pounds in contact with the ground max. Has no value other than to look cool. If you want to make the suspension functional, you could get light springs and add airshocks in place of your regular shocks with very little charge. like say 150 PSI. It would give the tire that is away from the spring at least a little value, but I have no idea how well it would work. Other than that, just retain the springs.
I would say a little more then 100lbs ground pressure, you have 1/2 the weight of the axle, + the spring and some of the control arm + the weight of the tire itself. And 100lbs of traction is still tons better then Zero traction. And I always thought the cool look was having your tire way up in the air? I can see my 90 with all four tires on the ground all day long.
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  #10  
Old October 18th, 2005, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackW
There's a very nice article on Expedition Exchange in Land Rover Monthly magazine - sort of explains John and Ho's point of view on truck modifications - which are very similiar to mine by the way.

I personally don't like cones because of the weird noises that they can make as the springs unseat and reseat - a distraction I don't need when I'm negotiating an obstacle - I'm not sure that an unloaded tire is going to provide a whole lot of traction at full droop anyway but I also don't do real extreme stuff with my trucks either. I guess that's why I bought a set of the EE spring retainers (which are really pretty nice by the way - just installed them two weeks ago).

The great thing about these trucks is that there are so many different ways to modify and personalize them
Not all cones make noise...
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  #11  
Old October 18th, 2005, 02:40 PM
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Yousef Hamzeh
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Damn it. Why would you listen to somebody that sells bolt on? Anyway, I had cones in the back and loved it not b/c it looked good, it was function trust me. I'll tell you why. In the 03 rally in Moab I was the only one that was able to go through the golden crack unlocked, why? b/c I had cones in the rear. Also, I used to wheel with locked D90's and was able to go everywhere they did and sometimes I made it look easier b/c I had cones in the rear (Buck please keep your nasty comments to yourself) and they were retained. Then I locked my D90 and want with retainers thinking just like you but guess what it sucked. The 90 was lifting tires left and right and just wasn't stable. I've seen people with cones front and rear that made fun of locked retained 90's on the trails. Granted on side slopes a retained 90 feels more stable but as far as roll over not really much difference. I ran coil overs in the back, and talk about lose rear end (again keep it to yourself Buck) and yes my 90 would lean like no body's business (ask Hippert) but it would never go over. Use common sense and you won't go over and the comment about cones causing roll over I call bs.

Keep your cones, and don't listen to anybody. Learn how to drive your rig and that's it. This is what people fail to see, it's not the equipment that sucks it's the driver, so if the EE gang hates it then they need to know how to drive. Simple

P.S. When the cones came out there were use to create traction not looks. The idea was a soiled front end for stability and flexy rear end for traction.
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  #12  
Old October 18th, 2005, 02:50 PM
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Not all cones make noise...



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John C.


What is it the cones of silence

haha couldnt resist
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  #13  
Old October 18th, 2005, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwisteD90
my 90 would lean like no body's business (ask Hippert) but it would never go over.
Nice avatar
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  #14  
Old October 18th, 2005, 03:22 PM
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I knew this was coming If you were there you would see that my pass door was almost parallel with the ground, so I was at 50+ deg before it went over.
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  #15  
Old October 18th, 2005, 03:27 PM
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Thank You for all of your responses!
I have learned a couple of things, EE is opinionated, and unlike most the readers on this forum, are what I like to call Roversnobs. It is exactly someone like that who kept me from joining a local club around here a couple of years ago.
I agree that these vehicles are so great and have gained such popularity since their conception because of:
a)Their exceptional off road ability
b)Their versitility and adaptability to each users own specifications, be it a farm vehicle with a PTO, or a rockcrawler, or even a Sunday driver.

But, it is never any fun to have someone on the other end of the country tell you that your nine year project is rediculous.
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  #16  
Old October 18th, 2005, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwisteD90
I knew this was coming If you were there you would see that my pass door was almost parallel with the ground, so I was at 50+ deg before it went over.
You are welcome
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  #17  
Old October 18th, 2005, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dave_lucas
Nice avatar
Now everyone in the office wants to know why I'm lauging...
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  #18  
Old October 18th, 2005, 04:36 PM
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Ohh your so funny Dave
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  #19  
Old October 18th, 2005, 06:38 PM
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Shawn, couldn't agree with you more about the Rover snob (Martha Stewart of Rovers). John sells some great stuff if you can ignore his BS and overlook the $100 cigar lighters and chop sticks.

That's what I ran into when I was gettng into flyfishing. I heard a guy say at a club meeting that dryfly fishing was the only way to really flyfish. And that if you don't hook the fish in the upper lip, it hooked its self. What a load of manure. I love fishing drys but I don't look down my nose at the way anyone fishes as long as it's within the law.

You will find a lot of good info on this website and other places, some of it just has to be filtered a little.
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  #20  
Old October 18th, 2005, 07:04 PM
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I like the guys at Pangaea - Nate is always helpful if you can get him on the phone.
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