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  #61  
Old October 20th, 2005, 12:52 AM
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Doug Walker
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My sons and I have purchased many times over the last few years from EE. We especially seem to use John & Co. when it comes time for Xmas and Holiday gifting! Sure he's opinionated and speaks plainly if he disagrees with your viewpoint. But that's a non-issue in my book. Actually a quality.

Furthermore, none of us Walker's have been dissatisfied with products or services, and to my knowledge never have had an argument with John or been insulted by him. The EE site is exemplary as well, and the detail is almost beyond belief. The first time I met John he dropped out of the Corva Poker Run, volunteering to give my disabled truck a tow back to base camp.

My 2 cents.

Doug W.
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  #62  
Old October 20th, 2005, 01:01 AM
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Shawn Palmer
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Sheki, you are a wang too.
A wang is another word for, you guessed it, A DICK!

Nothing racist, just pure DICK!

Follow-up Post:

Jim,
I think you are a wise man, and I thank you for your input. You are right, it could have been handled in a much better fashion. I am to blame more than anyone else, but it all started out as "Misc. chit- chat," not a bashing session.
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  #63  
Old October 20th, 2005, 01:07 AM
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Dennis Newman
*SOLD*Conniston 97 NAS 90
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I think there is a too much emotion on this thread so I thought I would boil it down to simple third party opinion. I have never talked to or bought anything from John nor do I know the people who have had issues with him.

I will say from reading multiple posts here, those on d-web and other rover-oriented sites John at a minimum comes off arrogant, opinionated and downright rude. You all HAVE to admit that on either side of the argument. In my opinion, rude to the point I would never buy something from EE, and question anyone I know who does, on why they do business with a company with an owner with that kind of attitude. I fully expect John will reply about the sleep he is loosing by some jerk from Colorado not buying his stuff, but if I were a good person as others say he is, I would probably feel bad and tone down my antagonistic responses. You can be right without being righteous. I hear several of you stick up for him suggesting he is a good person, and maybe he is but his online antics do not seem to support that. Be clear, I am not even referring to this thread where people are making very emotional statements on both sides, and others are trying to defend them. I am talking about general forum posting.

I also like the thought that "being honest with my opinion" is a valid excuse for being arrogant. As someone else pointed out the messaging you use to deliver information to someone does not have to be full bore all or nothing. I think a little finesse is what we are talking about. I have guys that work for me that deal with customers every day who know a fraction of what they know about computer networking, they could easily make them feel stupid and hide behind their superior knowledge, but they choose to be humble and use some human skills to overcome their deficiencies, thatís what really impresses me!

Dennis
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  #64  
Old October 20th, 2005, 01:10 AM
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Matt
1993 D110
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My Experience (YMMV)

I have purchased from EE and found John to be extremely informative and quite personable. He spent a considerable amount of time explaining various options and pros and cons of OME setups and equipment I was interested in. I wound up taking John's recommendations and I am extremely happy with the results. He took the time to point out things to look out for during the installation that saved me from what could have been a very frustrating experience. Even after I called back several times modifying my order flip flopping on accessories, he explained the pros and cons of each piece of equipment, providing me sufficient information so that I could make a good, informed decision. I visit the EE site quite often as I find it to be very informative and helpful in evaluating options for my vehicle. Many other sites simply offer a photo, price and sku. Sure I have seen some of the same stuff listed online at random sites, for a few bucks less here and there, however I find the real value to be that extra information provided both by John (and Ho) as well as their site.

Personally, I like the section of the site showing the Chef Showdown. What I see are a bunch of folks and their families having a great time with each other, their vehicles and the outdoors. Seems like a lot of fun.
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  #65  
Old October 20th, 2005, 01:14 AM
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Dennis Newman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I aspire to your level. But at this point I allow most to bully me around.
Although I dance a good soft shoe, until I don't.

Still though. I have to wonder if there isn't a level beyond both you and I. One where you can disagree with the customer adamently or even tell them exactly what they do not want to hear. And they accept it and move on gracefully because of their respect for you. And this takes place with the complete newbies to the seasoned vets. Every customer good and bad. Even the never were customers.

The internet spreads discontent like the plague. The most uninformed opinion carries its own weight just like a published research paper, it seems. So one has to be careful how many and how hard with regard to stepping on toes. I admire your zeal to take up for yourself and your ideals but worry about your public image. Other good people and/or customers can take a poor opinion of you for unsubstantiated reasons.

I realize you did not start this banter and only checked in to take up for yourself. But you could have difussed it./?
FANTASTIC POST PENDY!!!

This is exactly the point I was trying to make and exactly the opinion I have in regards to doing business with EE.
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  #66  
Old October 20th, 2005, 01:37 AM
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jim pendleton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwisteD90
Oh yeah, no kissing or making up for Pendy. Before you know this midget will start to hump your legs
That hurt man. You almost deserve the horrible time I've given you lately. I only appear the midget when you look down on me.
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  #67  
Old October 20th, 2005, 01:41 AM
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Chris von C
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Ok.. some bitching emails and PMs later and now I am stepping in. Just to be clear I've read all posts in this thread a number of times so there is no mistake in my opinion here.

Shawn, plain and simple, you blasted a Vendor here which you have every right to do and the Vendor blasted back to defend themselves which they have every right to, so I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem (and I say this to everyone) with and will stop NOW is the degrading language and name calling and piling on and "He said, She said" shit. Posting part numbers availble right off their website means nothing, post the invoice number and name you bought it under and I am sure if John verifies it he will publicly say he was in error.

Everyone go slap yourselves in the face and straighten your act up before posting again. Got it.
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Originally Posted by Lriwater: As you know, most wives don't like Series trucks due to the ride and lack of creature comforts. Girlfriends seem to like those, but some sort of magic happens during the wedding ceremony.
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  #68  
Old October 20th, 2005, 01:47 AM
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David Shechter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwisteD90
Whooo, take it easy guys. No need to turn this into pirate or Dweb

Everyone kiss and make up

Follow-up Post:

Oh yeah, no kissing or making up for Pendy. Before you know this midget will start to hump your legs
Hey we already had one racial comment, now you gonna pick on the vertically challenged? That ain't right

Watch out Jimmy "3rd low and boot it" is old school, check out my new sig. It took me 2 years to come up with one, but here it is. Thanks MuddyOval.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyOval
Sheki, you are a wang too.
A wang is another word for, you guessed it, A DICK!

Nothing racist, just pure DICK!
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  #69  
Old October 20th, 2005, 01:51 AM
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Shawn Palmer
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Glad you like it.
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  #70  
Old October 20th, 2005, 02:00 AM
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David Shechter
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so Chris, does that mean I can't use my new signature?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyOval
Sheki, you are a wang too.
A wang is another word for, you guessed it, A DICK!

Nothing racist, just pure DICK!
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  #71  
Old October 20th, 2005, 02:09 AM
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Yousef Hamzeh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
That hurt man. You almost deserve the horrible time I've given you lately. I only appear the midget when you look down on me.
I love you man. Now where is my 3-link?
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  #72  
Old October 20th, 2005, 02:31 AM
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sheki
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David Shechter
97' D90 SW 2.8L diesel
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oh... he didn't tell you, we put it on my truck. We figured you didn't have a 90 anymore so you wouldn't need it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyOval
Sheki, you are a wang too.
A wang is another word for, you guessed it, A DICK!

Nothing racist, just pure DICK!
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  #73  
Old October 20th, 2005, 02:47 AM
Broke It
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Dave Butler
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I have a budy in the north west that uses spring guides on his truck, 4 Wheeler wrote an article on his vehicle (The Lockless Monster) I have seen him drive circles around guys with big tires and lockers. He did the hammers on 32s and open diffs with no body damage. It just is personal preference. I personally love big axle articulation. Let us know how it works for you.
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  #74  
Old October 20th, 2005, 09:21 AM
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Buckon37s
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Buck
Re-Fendered 90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broke It
I have a budy in the north west that uses spring guides on his truck, 4 Wheeler wrote an article on his vehicle (The Lockless Monster) I have seen him drive circles around guys with big tires and lockers. He did the hammers on 32s and open diffs with no body damage. It just is personal preference. I personally love big axle articulation. Let us know how it works for you.
I call Bullsh*t. No way the hammers on 32's. Maybe in 94. Which trail? Sledge? Jack? Claw? No, there's just no way, no matter how much useless travel he had. Even fully locked on 32's is damn near impossible.
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #75  
Old October 20th, 2005, 10:20 AM
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Nicholas Orros
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I'm hearing all these replies and can infer a few things...


It's not what you say it's how you say it. Nobody says that anyone can't be opinionated, in fact I love opinions... And I respect those who aren't just trying to 'run with the pack'. BUT there's a difference between an opinion and not being able to answer one's questions regardless of how 'insipid' or 'general' they may seem. Some people want to go a level deeper when they ask a question, like instead of a 'just deal with it' answer they may require a simple 'WHY'. That's all I'm saying. I'm a jerk sometimes and I know it but there's a difference between that and blaitant arrogance & stupidity, or the literal laziness of maybe typing a few more sentences to fulfill a client's requests. Furthermore, I'm surprised there's any business heading their way from the way that some have been spoken to. Seriously folks... Think about it.

That's just not how things are done in this country... well, at least where I come from.


Nicholas Orros
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  #76  
Old October 20th, 2005, 11:56 AM
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Peter Sherman
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Right on PENDY!
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  #77  
Old October 20th, 2005, 12:43 PM
Eric Siepmann
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Eric W. Siepmann
1997 Defender 90 SW
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Edit - Deleted after reading CvC's post.
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  #78  
Old October 20th, 2005, 01:16 PM
m.michaels
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Matthew Michaels
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Is it really that bad

I have no problem with John & company. In fact, when I bought the whole OME set-up from him, and told him I was going to run 35" pro-comp xterrains - he said it would make the rig look too jeepish. That's cool, I live in Texas, and I like a red-neck looking rig. He then went on to tell me my swing away tire carrier complete with a mount for the hi-lift, jerry cans, and tire would slowly pull away from the back - wreaking havoc on the defender, Plus if I ever clipped it, it would screw up the back door.

Well I wasn't happy, because I just bought the tire carrier - but oh well. In fact he is probably right, if I ever clip the thing it probably will screw up the rear of the vehicle, but it has not pulled away yet. . .

Either way, I did appreciate him taking the time to share with me some of his practical experience, and his opinions. Even if I don't agree.

And I haven't had one jeep owner tell me my rig looks "jeepish" anyway . . .
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  #79  
Old October 20th, 2005, 01:18 PM
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kevin
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Wow, I go to Zion for a few days and all hell brakes loose. I have yet to buy anything from EE but I probably will in the future if the need arises. I have met John and Ho on the trail several times and they are nice guys. They sell awsome stuff. I did contact them last week by email asking if they sold panhard rod bolts. The response was a simple "nope". Fair enough. A few phone calls over the years have resulted in the same kind of one word responses. The reason I emailed EE was because British Pacific suggested that I call EE because they did not have the part either and said it would be awhile before they did. I have been directed to EE several times by BP's owner when they did not have the part. I really appreciate when one shop will suggest another shop if they cannot help. I think it helps the Land Rover community overall. BP knows that they will not lose my buisness by doing this. I know John and Ho are opinionated and just accept it and dont take offense. When I win the lotto I know where I am going on a shopping spree EE.
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  #80  
Old October 20th, 2005, 01:43 PM
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John Lee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyOval
By the way, these are the two items that I bought from you. If I would have known I was going to have to save my receipt for evidence, I would have. But, I didn't think that it would ever come down to that.

Bolt-On CB Antenna Bracket (3500090) $30

Hi-Lift Jack Adapter (3500040) $45
You didn't buy anything from us. Both of those items are very low sellers and are very easy to track. For example, we've sold only 19 ARB CB brackets since we started selling them, and I can account for each and every one sold. The same goes for the 49 Hi-Lift Jack Adapters. Again, both are very low sellers and are very easy to account for.

Furthermore, all of our shipments are recorded. You're in GA and we're in CA, so we obviously shipped to you. And yet you don't appear anywhere in our shipping records.

You don't appear anywhere in our customer records. You don't appear anywhere in our accounting software. You don't appear anywhere in our UPS or USPS records. Why? Because you didn't buy anything from EE the way that you claim. You're lying about being an EE customer.

Yeah, I'm a penis. Whatever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I have to wonder if there isn't a level beyond both you and I. One where you can disagree with the customer adamently or even tell them exactly what they do not want to hear. And they accept it and move on gracefully because of their respect for you. And this takes place with the complete newbies to the seasoned vets. Every customer good and bad. Even the never were customers.

The internet spreads discontent like the plague. The most uninformed opinion carries its own weight just like a published research paper, it seems. So one has to be careful how many and how hard with regard to stepping on toes. I admire your zeal to take up for yourself and your ideals but worry about your public image. Other good people and/or customers can take a poor opinion of you for unsubstantiated reasons.

I realize you did not start this banter and only checked in to take up for yourself. But you could have difussed it./?
Ho and I refer to that type of vendor as the "Don Corleone Vendor". He keeps his friends close and his enemies closer. I think Bill @ GBR is a very good example of a Corleone. Almost everyone likes Bill--from intelligent people to morons, from spenders to cheap fucks, from wheelers to dirt road safari people, and so on. Probably the only people I know of who don't like Bill are the booty fab homemade guys. And it's unrealistic that each and every single person in the world would like Bill. But even with that exception, I think Bill is a good example of a Corleone Vendor.

I understand the Corleone Method and can see how it can be very effective, but I don't aspire to it. I would rather let people know they're morons if they're morons. I would rather call bullshit on them when they're lying. This method certainly alienates some people. But it also brings in others. For every person who is turned off, there are others who are turned on, as demonstrated by the pro-EE posts on this thread.

I have no idea what the actual ratio of off's to on's is, but I really don't care either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by norros
I'm hearing all these replies and can infer a few things...It's not what you say it's how you say it. Nobody says that anyone can't be opinionated, in fact I love opinions... And I respect those who aren't just trying to 'run with the pack'. BUT there's a difference between an opinion and not being able to answer one's questions regardless of how 'insipid' or 'general' they may seem. Some people want to go a level deeper when they ask a question, like instead of a 'just deal with it' answer they may require a simple 'WHY'. That's all I'm saying. I'm a jerk sometimes and I know it but there's a difference between that and blaitant arrogance & stupidity, or the literal laziness of maybe typing a few more sentences to fulfill a client's requests. Furthermore, I'm surprised there's any business heading their way from the way that some have been spoken to. Seriously folks... Think about it.
You remind of the guy who gets dumped by his girlfriend, and tries to get back together with her by using the Why Card, i.e., "It's all right with me that you want to break up with me, but I just want to know why. That's all I want to know."

It's obvious why I was so curt with you when you asked why JL Audio stuff couldn't be sold on the web. I've alread stated why but you refused to accept that explanation, so I'll tell you once again. Before you asked about the JL Audio stuff, you asked us to sell you a Benchmade automatic. I told you we couldn't sell you a Benchmade automatic and I explained the legal and contractual reasons why we couldn't sell you a Benchmade automatic. You refused to accept those reasons and said Benchmade automatics were being sold on eBay, so we should sell one to you.

If you didn't accept the legal reasons with criminal ramifications for why we couldn't sell you a Benchmade automatic, why would accept a unilateral policy decision by JL Audio to prohibit its authorized dealers from selling JL Audio battery connectors on the web? I could have gone into it with you, because I knew from our past dealings that I would have heard the same bullshit from back from you, which I did. When I told you that it was JL Audio's policy to prohibit web sales, you come back with links to pricegrabber.com, eBay, bottomdollar.com and other bottom feeder web sites selling overstock and outdated JL Audio stuff of questionable origin. And you after that you just had to insert the "You're a smart guy, but honestly, not that smart.", which I take it is your guinea goombah version of Q.E.D. or something, even though you didn't prove anything.

When reasonable people ask me questions, I give an explanation. But when guys like you ask, I don't. Why? Because you're not going to accept my explanation anyway.
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