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Old April 5th, 2012, 12:01 PM
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EPA forcing 15% Ethanol in Gasoline?

Just read an article that the EPA is going to mandate 15% ethanol in all Gasoline. The article said that it was safe for all vehicle's newer than 2010, but the potential damage to older vehicles is unknown.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old April 5th, 2012, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97-D90-736 View Post
Just read an article that the EPA is going to mandate 15% ethanol in all Gasoline. The article said that it was safe for all vehicle's newer than 2010, but the potential damage to older vehicles is unknown.

Thoughts?
It's been the bane of my existence for quite time time, especially considering that I have a few vehicles older than I am. Not to mention a boat from the mid-80s...I'm sure it'll wreak havoc on that as well. So ridiculous, and then on top of it all it does is shoot the grain & corn prices up. For awhile on the lake we were able to get ethanol-free gas since it's known to cause issues with older boats, but this past summer they put the squash on that as well. Sucks.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 12:58 PM
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I read a similar article. It said that the 15% will not be mandatory for the stations to carry and will be in separate well marked hoses.

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/04/02...-production-a/
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Old April 5th, 2012, 01:00 PM
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The issue I have with ethanol is this:

It's simply less fuel energy per unit volume than gasoline. It's only 2/3 as much power per gallon burned compared to gasoline.

If the government mandates 5% more ethanol, then I'm getting 2% fewer miles per gallon. So I expect to pay 2% less.

But the truth of the matter is that the 5% mandated increase is not coming with a reduction in fuel prices.

It's the same problem I have with meat companies injecting their chicken with up to 15% by weight of retained water or saline, while charging the same per lb for the meat. That basically means I get 15% less meat for the same amount of money.

I wouldn't mind running 100% ethanol in my car. There are advantages. With an equivalent octane rating of over 114, I could use a much higher compression ratio or turn up my turbo boost and fuel and get more power. But with only 33% the fuel energy, I would expect my fuel prices to be 33% lower. All else being equal, I have to use 33% more fuel to go the same distance I used to using 100% gasoline.

It's the lack of corresponding reductions in fuel prices that I don't like.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post

It's the lack of corresponding reductions in fuel prices that I don't like.


Its the annual "tear your fucking arm off trying to start the mower" i dont like
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Old April 5th, 2012, 01:26 PM
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Love that I have a station a couple of miles away that has non-ethanol fuel :-)

Great for mowers, boats and Defenders...
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Old April 5th, 2012, 01:37 PM
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If we gave up using Ethanol, we could use the Corn to actually feed people... Keeping grocery prices down. Gotta love government intervention.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 01:48 PM
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Ethanol is bullshit, marketing it as "green energy" is ludicrous. I wish I knew who to blame, Ill point the finger at Monsanto ADM Pioneer etc..
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Old April 5th, 2012, 01:49 PM
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Let's not forget that the Ethanol actually causes your fuel economy to go down. Ridiculous.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 01:51 PM
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It is bullshit, from the environmental aspect it is horrid, the amount of energy put in to get 1 gallon of ethanol fuel is pretty close to 1 gallon of fuel imputed, that is besides the fact that you know have much less corn for everything else, and corn is used for many things in the food industry, so now food prices go up.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 02:27 PM
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Stations will receive significant subsidies from USDA in the form of grants and a loan guarantee program to upgrade to blenders and pumps that support E15. One would think that market demand for blended fuel would be sufficient to stimulate investment in this hardware, but apperently its not.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 02:28 PM
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As I understand it, 70% or more of the world corn crop is not for human consumption and therefore designed in such a way that it is not digestible. With that said I feel like its a side-step trickle down effect to my pocket via everything that eats corn based feed.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 02:50 PM
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Ok, so I've heard lots of variations to the stories of farmers being paid not to grow crops, crops grown for fuel eating into available food sources etc. Where can you find the truth about this stuff?
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Old April 5th, 2012, 04:18 PM
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Al Gore.

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He did this right after he invented the internet lol.

We really hate the stuff for the snowmobiles as well. They run soo much better without it. It does make a difference when you are 10k+ ft for sure. its getting harder and harder to find the good stuff in Elko.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by airbornrover View Post
As I understand it, 70% or more of the world corn crop is not for human consumption and therefore designed in such a way that it is not digestible.
I'm pretty sure you can eat corn made for ethanol production. You just have to mill it first.

I wouldn't recommend eating it on the cob, though!
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Old April 5th, 2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind

It's been the bane of my existence for quite time time, especially considering that I have a few vehicles older than I am. Not to mention a boat from the mid-80s...I'm sure it'll wreak havoc on that as well. So ridiculous, and then on top of it all it does is shoot the grain & corn prices up. For awhile on the lake we were able to get ethanol-free gas since it's known to cause issues with older boats, but this past summer they put the squash on that as well. Sucks.
Jason, Boats By George still sells ethanol-free gas IIRC.
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  #17  
Old April 5th, 2012, 06:02 PM
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You should see what it's done to a bag of deer corn. It's gone thru the roof several times over the past few years. We used to pay $3 and now it's up to $8-$11 for a 40lb bag in about 5 years time.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 06:22 PM
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The entire ethanol thing is one of the worst of a long line of scams on the American taxpayer. Between the "real" non-taxpayer subsidized costs associated, its pretending to be "green" when its not really, and the aforementioned poor performance and damage to vehicles (especially if they're stored for any time), this is an unfunny joke that won't die.

Yes, the corn grown for ethanol isn't for food use, but in truth, neither is most of the corn actually grown for food production nowadays. (And the soil is trashed after a short bit for other food production without modern chemistry, making the cycle worse.)

It's not specifically about ethanol, but more about the power of big agra-companies and mass food production, "King Corn" is a good documentary about the corn scam, and the ethanol stuff applies. A great learn, and also very watchable. (If you watch this, especially if you have kids, you'll get sucked into similar documentaries. "Food Inc", "Supersize Me", the "Fast Food Nation" book, etc.) There was one specifically about ethanol and it's hype I saw a few years ago, but I can't remember the name.

There are promising biodiesel processes (algae, etc) that may actually work long-term, but they get little attention because they're not yet profitable and don't have a huge congressional lobby machine.

Murph
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Old April 5th, 2012, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeloBubba View Post
It's not specifically about ethanol, but more about the power of big agra-companies and mass food production, "King Corn" is a good documentary about the corn scam, and the ethanol stuff applies. A great learn, and also very watchable. (If you watch this, especially if you have kids, you'll get sucked into similar documentaries. "Food Inc", "Supersize Me", the "Fast Food Nation" book, etc.) There was one specifically about ethanol and it's hype I saw a few years ago, but I can't remember the name.
I'll have to look for some of these. We saw "Food Inc" and my wife stopped eating meat for a few weeks I think the rest of the family has seen "Supersize Me" as well. let me know if you remember the name of the ethanol one.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 08:08 PM
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Monsanto is pure evil as far as I'm concerned. If left to their devices they will control our food supply. I wouldn't be surprised if they had something to do with the ethanol requirements as well.
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