EPA and VW diesels - 'dyno' and 'road' modes - Page 9 - Defender Source
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  #161  
Old September 29th, 2015, 04:16 PM
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I drove a 2000lbs car[s] for a while and loved it. Then the .gov legislated them out of existence. IE the lotus elise and exige. Sound familiar defender owners? The .gov kills all the fun vehicles.

So yes, I would absolutely buy and drive a new version of an MG/triumph/old style mini etc. your 1600lbs economy car. I don't care about safety and, given that motorcycles are permitted on the highways, I don't see why cars have to have all the safety equipment that they do.

Oh, and my dream car morgan aero 8. Just released a new version in the ROW with a price around $100k, but not available in the US because of crash testing. I would buy that car too.

Modern cars are basically rolling safety cages. I mean just look at how high the door lines have gotten for side impact and how big even "small" cars are compared to the past. No wonder they get crap fuel economy. A midsize sedan outweighs a NAS defender.

Finally, and I think I have said this before, the tuning VW did was not about power and economy, it was about the lifespan of the DPF (and EGR). You can run tons of power and be clean and the economy does not suffer much (just the extra DPF cycles), but if you run clean as you are supposed to be it kills the DPF which, by the way, is subject to the 8/80 federal emissions warranty and runs about $5k to replace. VW I am sure did not want that to happen.
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  #162  
Old September 29th, 2015, 04:47 PM
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Has anyone done the same testing on a GM/Ford/Dodge diesel pickup to check for compliance?
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  #163  
Old September 29th, 2015, 06:02 PM
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Ron, that lotus was like...one of seven cars you owned. You're not even remotely the average car buyer in the USA and the idea of you hypermiling is pretty hilarious!

And by the way, it was Lotus that killed the Exige and Elise in the US. Not the USG. Proof? You can buy an Evora if you need a lotus in the US. More proof: A little company called Ariel.

Anyways, we are getting away from the original point. That Eric Peters article started off OK, but then turned into a whacky and totally illogical diatribe against the EPA. Give me a break. You might as well hang a tea bag off that guy's pen.

Also, I can't believe people still think that airbag regs killed the defender in the US. Give me a break!

Ron - great points about safety in modern vehicles
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  #164  
Old September 29th, 2015, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
So yes, I would absolutely buy and drive a new version of an MG/triumph/old style mini etc. your 1600lbs economy car. I don't care about safety and, given that motorcycles are permitted on the highways, I don't see why cars have to have all the safety equipment that they do.
And motorcyclist don't need helmets in some states unless under age.

I also seem to recall back in the 60s, there was a proposal for helmets to be worn in cars. Most likely a Ralph Nador thing. Sounds like his style.

Back to the subject at hand.
If you think NYC or Los Angeles have smog problems, remember we could be living in Beijing, Bangkok, Delhi, or Mumbai.

------ Follow up post added September 29th, 2015 10:58 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
I remember reading years ago that Saab's 900 would put out cleaner air than it took in if you drove in NYC. I was in Paris recently and with all the diesel cars, trucks and buses the air seemed very clean. And we were outside almost the whole day walking around.
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  #165  
Old September 30th, 2015, 12:13 AM
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Here is your 2,000 lb car. Looks like a little more fun than a Pious. Polaris Slingshot First Drive Review Car and Driver
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  #166  
Old September 30th, 2015, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
Here is your 2,000 lb car. Looks like a little more fun than a Pious. Polaris Slingshot First Drive – Review – Car and Driver
No! This would be fun.

http://litmotors.com/
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  #167  
Old September 30th, 2015, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 73S3BLIMEY View Post
I don't see how as a consumer and and owner of a 2014 Passat this has hurt me. I like my 45 to 50 MPG. I think a selling point to another individual would be I never ever let the dealer reprogram my ECM to a "save a polar bear" EPA setting.
I think we are all naive if we think VW is the only company doing this. The others probably have better programmers.
Don't know if someone already pointed this out or not, but the problem is that the states are going to start requiring that you get your car reprogrammed before it can pass DEQ. You will not get the performance or MPG you once got, but you will always know it's possible, you just can't have it...
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  #168  
Old September 30th, 2015, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
And emissions.... The electricity does not come from the magic electricity fairy.
But....that's what I've always called the sun.

The only real answer is solar. A breakthrough in batteries and a breakthrough in solar panel efficiency will solve the problem. And since the government isn't going to let up, it is the oil and auto industry that should be leading the way on trying to get solar energy to actually work for vehicles.

Tesla, for instance, probably actually puts as much CO2 in the air as any other car, it's just that it does it in the 3rd person.

Is The Tesla Model S Green? - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha

And the more 100% electric cars there are, the more 3rd person emissions we must create to keep our collective feel-good cars running.
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  #169  
Old September 30th, 2015, 05:25 AM
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Ok so the shock of the VW/Audi/seat/skoda news is wearing off for me.
It might almost be a good time to get to know one of the many VW dealers near me. I'm sure they have time on their hands.
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  #170  
Old September 30th, 2015, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
Here is your 2,000 lb car. Looks like a little more fun than a Pious. Polaris Slingshot First Drive – Review – Car and Driver
These are a blast. I've got one in the driveway now. No diesel fumes.



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  #171  
Old September 30th, 2015, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RBBailey View Post
But....that's what I've always called the sun.

The only real answer is solar. A breakthrough in batteries and a breakthrough in solar panel efficiency will solve the problem. And since the government isn't going to let up, it is the oil and auto industry that should be leading the way on trying to get solar energy to actually work for vehicles.

Tesla, for instance, probably actually puts as much CO2 in the air as any other car, it's just that it does it in the 3rd person.

Is The Tesla Model S Green? - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha

And the more 100% electric cars there are, the more 3rd person emissions we must create to keep our collective feel-good cars running.
Are 3rd person emissions less than the equivalent first person emissions? Can those emissions be dealt with more efficiently in a central production model ... ie a power station. Is it better to produce emissions in high smoke stacks away from populated areas as opposed to ground level where people are directly exposed?

Single measure comparisons aren't particularly useful, unless you are a lobbyist or politician.

There isn't a single magic bullet, for example solar production in the UK while becoming more popular isn't going to cut it ... they have extensive wind farms and will also invest in tidal and other forms.

Just like your 401K there needs to be a balanced portfolio of energy generation and consumption to avoid over reliance on a single source. Layered redundancy is required.

The fact that we have vehicles running on:

Diesel
Gas
Propane
Veg oil
electric
hydrogen
kers
and combos of the above demonstrates the layering in action. We are just overweight in some categories but that will change with maturity of energy technology.
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  #172  
Old October 2nd, 2015, 09:53 PM
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15hp, 32ft-lb torque by one estimate:
http://jalopnik.com/heres-how-much-h...r-d-1734341446
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  #173  
Old October 2nd, 2015, 11:18 PM
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Unless I see dyno charts, I don't believe a word.
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  #174  
Old October 2nd, 2015, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
Are 3rd person emissions less than the equivalent first person emissions? Can those emissions be dealt with more efficiently in a central production model ... ie a power station. Is it better to produce emissions in high smoke stacks away from populated areas as opposed to ground level where people are directly exposed?

Single measure comparisons aren't particularly useful, unless you are a lobbyist or politician.

There isn't a single magic bullet, for example solar production in the UK while becoming more popular isn't going to cut it ... they have extensive wind farms and will also invest in tidal and other forms.
Yep.

I hate wind farms... a wind turbine at source makes total sense, but once you get over the "cool" factor of seeing one of those huge wind farms, you start to realize that the electricity they generate is not worth the trade of the ruined landscape. When you go out into eastern Oregon, where just a few years ago it was empty grass land and wheat fields, now it is an eyesore. And at night, the entire horizon is lit up with thousands of blinking red lights, 360 degrees, as far as you can see.
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  #175  
Old October 3rd, 2015, 12:21 AM
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Yep.

I hate wind farms... a wind turbine at source makes total sense, but once you get over the "cool" factor of seeing one of those huge wind farms, you start to realize that the electricity they generate is not worth the trade of the ruined landscape. When you go out into eastern Oregon, where just a few years ago it was empty grass land and wheat fields, now it is an eyesore. And at night, the entire horizon is lit up with thousands of blinking red lights, 360 degrees, as far as you can see.
I totally agree. I find them as a real eyesore.
I'd rather see one small coal plant then hundreds of acres of wind farms.
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  #176  
Old October 5th, 2015, 10:15 PM
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Does it bother anyone that GM covered up a known ignition defect that killed over 100 people and was hit with a $900 million fine yet VW didn't kill anyone with their emissions scandal yet has set aside over $7 Billion for the blowback?? At what point did this get blown way out of proportion to what really matters?
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  #177  
Old October 5th, 2015, 11:20 PM
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Does it bother anyone that GM covered up a known ignition defect that killed over 100 people and was hit with a $900 million fine yet VW didn't kill anyone with their emissions scandal yet has set aside over $7 Billion for the blowback?? At what point did this get blown way out of proportion to what really matters?
Could it be that GM got preferential treatment be the government. Just saying.
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  #178  
Old October 6th, 2015, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Mpfish82 View Post
Does it bother anyone that GM covered up a known ignition defect that killed over 100 people and was hit with a $900 million fine yet VW didn't kill anyone with their emissions scandal yet has set aside over $7 Billion for the blowback?? At what point did this get blown way out of proportion to what really matters?
$7 billion is only a start. Cost to report is reportedly around $300 per vehicle and involves 11,000,000 vehicles.
$7 billion won't cover cost of all the fines, rebates to get you to buy again additional service costs lawsuits etc.
you can be sure that as a foreign company they get hit very hard by the EPA
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  #179  
Old October 6th, 2015, 08:18 AM
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Could it be that GM got preferential treatment be the government. Just saying.
Being completely different offenses I don't know how we could ever tell. But it is clear One was premeditated.
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  #180  
Old October 6th, 2015, 10:04 AM
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I was thinking about this again today.

How is the EPA going to re-test these cars for compliance?

They are going to have to implement a whole new arbitrary test just for VW to test emissions across all kinds of driving conditions.

Will this test be applied to all other manfacturers as well? It would have to.

There is going to be a strong lobby against that by all the auto makers.
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