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  #81  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
you can always have the ECU updated with a new fuelling pattern afterwards ... you'll be doing exactly what VW have done ... but it's perfectly possible and widely available in Europe.
Yeah, after it's out of warranty, I may look into a "performance" tune of some sort. I guess I can handle a little less MPG and extra DEF usage for another couple of years.

I think I saw an upgrade that upped the HP to 190 and the torque to 230. I'm not sure if they support the "new" engine in the 2015 yet or not.
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  #82  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by waveridin1959 View Post
Its all just a conspiracy to get rid of Diesels. They just want to keep selling Petrol!
I did not look into the "why", but I know France has declared a war against diesel a few months ago reverting a 2- or 3-decade long trend.
France moves against diesel | Transport & Environment
Smog is Forcing France to Rethink its Love of Diesel
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  #83  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Which they did
How The EPA Won $1 Billion From Diesel Cheaters Long Before VW

Article extract ..
If you go and look up the full text of the Clean Air Act and search for ‘defeat,’ you will come up with this very clear explanation explicitly states under the ‘Prohibited Acts’ section, that is it prohibited “for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use.”
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  #84  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 11:46 AM
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This whole thing gets more interesting by the moment. My conspiracy theory senses are on high alert but I think we are seeing VW fall on the sword here on purpose. Ferdinand Piech's resignation was quite timely in hindsight. Unlikely that he didnt know this was coming.
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  #85  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by MonLand View Post
I did not look into the "why", but I know France has declared a war against diesel a few months ago reverting a 2- or 3-decade long trend.
France moves against diesel | Transport & Environment
Smog is Forcing France to Rethink its Love of Diesel
I wonder if this is because the 'clean air' projections of improved diesel engines hasn't been realised as lots of the manufacturers are bypassing the emission controls.
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  #86  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
This whole thing gets more interesting by the moment. My conspiracy theory senses are on high alert but I think we are seeing VW fall on the sword here on purpose. Ferdinand Piech's resignation was quite timely in hindsight. Unlikely that he didnt know this was coming.
That resignation, sold as a boardroom fight.

He's involved in this as much as anyone.
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  #87  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jafir View Post
Or even compared to their own previous products they are clean. I can drove my 2015 wide open and never see a bit of smoke or soot come out the tailpipe, but the older VWs I've seen (especially the ones before CR) roll coal if you drive them flat out.
Soot is not what the EPA is bitching about. It is NOX and basically it is the EGR cycle that is controlling things. They set it up so the EGR goes to 100% during conditions that match the EPA test cycle. Once you are out on the highway, which is not part of the EPA cycle, the EGR shuts off.

The NOX limits set by CARB are set much lower than is needed and the reasons for the limit are political and not scientific...

Anywho, Euro 6 NOX limits are just as low, so everyone is getting urea injection and the world in happy. The problem is with this specific engine that they barely squeezed by the EPA tests without urea and there is no space within the vehicles to add those devices.
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  #88  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 12:07 PM
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Fortunately mine has urea, so hopefully they can give a special software just for the 2015 to increase the dosing, and not retard the timing or increase EGR use. Supposedly retarding the timing to reduce NOx also increases soot.... so it's a trade off... which pollutant do you want?
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  #89  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jafir View Post
Fortunately mine has urea, so hopefully they can give a special software just for the 2015 to increase the dosing, and not retard the timing or increase EGR use. Supposedly retarding the timing to reduce NOx also increases soot.... so it's a trade off... which pollutant do you want?
The urea cars are not part of the recall. It is just the 2.0 l non-urea engines.

2009–2015 Audi A3 2.0L TDI
2009–2015 VW Beetle 2.0L TDI
2009–2015 VW Golf 2.0L TDI
2009–2015 VW Jetta 2.0L TDI
2014–2015 VW Passat 2.0L TDI.

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/docume...a-09-18-15.pdf
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  #90  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
The urea cars are not part of the recall. It is just the 2.0 l non-urea engines.

2009–2015 Audi A3 2.0L TDI
2009–2015 VW Beetle 2.0L TDI
2009–2015 VW Golf 2.0L TDI
2009–2015 VW Jetta 2.0L TDI
2014–2015 VW Passat 2.0L TDI.

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/docume...a-09-18-15.pdf
If that is the case, why aren't they allowed to sell current new vehicles? All of the current vehicles have urea.
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  #91  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 12:50 PM
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If that is the case, why aren't they allowed to sell current new vehicles? All of the current vehicles have urea.
They elected not to sell them. If they'd continued to sell them, you know that all that the media would pick up on would be that VW continued to sell diesels in the US even after they'd admitted deception.
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  #92  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 12:52 PM
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I'm not sure that's accurate. Here are the test groups affected:

Click image for larger version

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And here is the VECI sticker from a 2015 with DEF:

Click image for larger version

Name:	VECI sticker.jpg
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ID:	130438
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  #93  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 01:12 PM
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Okay, you are correct. It does affect the urea cars as well.

This is the testing that started it all and defines the "40x" over. See page 62/63.

Vehicle A = 2012 Jetta SportWagen TDI (LNT), Vehicle B = 2013 Passat TDI (SCR), Vehicle C = BMW X5 xDrive35d (SCR)
http://www.theicct.org/sites/default...al_may2014.pdf
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  #94  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 01:20 PM
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  #95  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 01:22 PM
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What a bunch of garbage data that is. Unscientific. All it shows is the possibility of a trend. Even that can be debunked because the testing conditions were unequal.
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  #96  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 01:28 PM
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I see they test for Colorado too, here is the average THC:

Click image for larger version

Name:	thc.jpg
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Size:	77.5 KB
ID:	130439

(joking)
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  #97  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 02:10 PM
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The testing tells me that BMW is doing the same thing, they are just a lot better at it. NOX is non detect in the EPA standard test and barely under limits in their on road tests with the one being 10X over. Keep in mind the limit of 0.04 g/km is insanely low. That was my point earlier that the limit is not set based on science. It is based on what is easy to achieve in a gasoline engined car, not what is needed for pollution control.

I'm sure for your urea car, it will be a quick and easy fix by increasing the injection rate. Apparently they use much lower urea rates than every other brands. Fixing the non-urea cars will take a big hit in power and mileage and that will cause a lot of unhappy owners....
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  #98  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 02:10 PM
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Just got the car back.
Nothing unusual done to it.
The dealer doesn't have anything to report yet, just not selling any diesels.
Needless to say not many people shopping.
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  #99  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 02:31 PM
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damn, and I was enjoying my 55+mpg
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  #100  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 02:48 PM
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Nothing an aftermarket re-flash won't fix. Should end up being fabulous business for the tuners once the recall happens.
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