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  #1  
Old April 17th, 2008, 05:27 PM
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Early 110s

I posted a 110 For Sale over in the classified section and it turned into a thread about early 110s and imports, so I wanted to bring up the same topic in a better place.
I have been getting quite a few emails about the "cheap" 110s in the UK and such. What I don't understand is why people think that the UK is a magical place for Land Rovers where abuse, neglect and rust does not happen. I love Rovers, but over there they look at them much like we look at GMC trucks... who cares about them when they get old, when was the last time you saw a mint 1983 GMC truck from the New England? So now the early 110s are able to be imported legally with their original engines and a truck that is 3K pounds in the UK is suddenly 15K dollars here in the US. Mind you I'm not above this, I have a few to import and sell as well, but I'm trying to be very selective and only buy good trucks, not the typical, and I don't expect them to bring huge money. I passed up one a week or so ago that is now for sale to the US by others and it is listed as a great truck. The thing was crap, total crap, and soon some poor bloke will pay 15K plus for that to arrive at the port of his choice... I see a lot of broken hearted "buy via photo" in the UK early 110 owners in the near future.

I guess my question to the members here is... is the USA Defender buyer so blind-ass nutz for a 110 that a rusted and 25 year old 110 that will need no end of work to keep going will still fetch huge money in the USA?

Don't get me wrong I welcome these trucks, they'll be great for the hobby and for shops like mine, but these aren't NAS 110s and I wonder if the potential buyers have ever seen or driven a 25 year old 110.
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  #2  
Old April 17th, 2008, 06:13 PM
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Great point...
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Old April 17th, 2008, 06:56 PM
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I guess its all about what you choose to import. I have a 1983 110 5 door with 300tdi, r380 and lt230 (15k on these components), new bulk head, correct r380 seat box, rear crossmember, new Eastmoor trim Trackers seats, recent paint, new 35inch goodyear mtr's, new springs and shocks. The mechanic who built it spent 7500gbp on just the parts. Ro/ro shipping is just shy of 2k, figure another 250gbp for transport costs within the UK (got lucky on this one it was South of London). Customs and state taxes and titling add another 10% and a day out of your life. The truck is inbound now and will be here the 26th. It is tenatively presold for 19.5k. Anyone with a calculator can see how thin the margin on this truck is.

The other side of the coin- I got a call last month from and enthusiast in Minnesota who was looking for a 5 door 110 to put his wife into. He just was looking for advice as he was already looking at a particular truck-recently imported. This truck was represented as a 1983 and was aparently in very nice condition, he worked for a Rover dealership and had driven the truck. The truck was a bone stock rhd 3.5 v8 with lt95. The asking price was 18k. I told him that sounded high to me- he said he was ok with the price but wanted to ask other questions. He ended up backing away from the deal when the truck turned out to be titled as a 1979 series 3.
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  #4  
Old April 17th, 2008, 07:01 PM
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Mike,
you make a great point once again, but...
Why would you waste your time on crap rusted out 110s, when you have a 2 year wait on NAS D110 restorations now?

Feel free to PM, or email me.
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Old April 17th, 2008, 07:13 PM
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Considering some still search for the $44 jeep in a crate...I think the line for '83 110's is growing by the day.
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Old April 17th, 2008, 07:50 PM
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Back up 10 years ago ...

Go back 10 years ago and you will see the exact same phenomena here in Canada. Now what it left today are allot of overpriced and rotten spare parts, some bad rebuild shops (still haven't come across one in Canada that does a pristine job), and a few sellers of crap Defenders. Yes even 15 year old Defenders are crappy for the most parts. But the NAS market is still good.

As for what I have seen in the UK shopping for Cars (Minis, Morgans, Rovers ...) we (North Americans) do not share the same "Car Culture" at all. For all the Defenders I have helped bring in were all somewhat rebuilds and came from so many different trucks to make one really decent ride. And even then, allot of work still needs to be put in to bring it to the bottom of our scale of good condition automobiles.

I guess soon enough people will get tired of being messed with and only a few good places to import will be left doing business.

Keep doing what you do Mike, more business will soon be heading your way.

My .02$ witch is pretty much at par from north of the border !

Pat
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  #7  
Old April 17th, 2008, 10:19 PM
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Mike, I don't think anyone other than the ones doing the importing/selling are buying them site unseen. The "poor blokes" are seeing them in person before completing the sale. Although I think the prices are a bit steep, those importing them deserve compensation for their efforts - and as you have done yourself, if you don't agree, just import your own But as steep as they are, they are still a fraction of the cost of a NAS 110.

I am sure none of them have any illusions about what they are buying. I bought Janey knowing all her flaws, and decided I'd rather have her now than wait a year or more to import one from the UK sight unseen myself.

BTW, I couldn't be happier. My old POS 110 is as capable as half the trucks out there, and I don't have to worry about trying to keep her pristine or original.

But I'll admit that I also have no illusions of fixing her up and selling her for some huge profit either, and maybe that's where I differ. But I don't consider my NAS D90 an investment either, so what do I know

charles
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  #8  
Old April 17th, 2008, 11:03 PM
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They are probably all a bag of nails. But the vision is to bring them back to service. In my mind it will only strengthen the following for our favorite marque. Some will profit. But risks have been taken to even open the market up for these vehicles. Eventually the surge will slow and prices will come more in line with actual value. Just like it did for collectable series trucks soon after the last D90's were produced for our market. The weak economy will help prevent them from selling upside down as well.

I look at it as oppurtunity to practice my craft building these trucks and not handing the keys to someone afterwards to a vehicle of questionable legal liability. I won't flip anything that can't go into service as a daily driver. And I am sure all of them need much TLC to get there. If I can get compensated for that work and also see something above the amount that it took to get it here, I'll be happy. Beats fighting over wrecked, burnt or theft recovery Defenders with Maxxcar at the salvage pool. Oppourtunists have been involved in the sale of these vehicles from many angles.

My opinion anyway.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_Winningham
Mike,
you make a great point once again, but...
Why would you waste your time on crap rusted out 110s, when you have a 2 year wait on NAS D110 restorations now?

Feel free to PM, or email me.

Trying to jump in line? Maybe a box of chocolates would do the trick.
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  #9  
Old April 18th, 2008, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_Winningham
Mike,
you make a great point once again, but...
Why would you waste your time on crap rusted out 110s, when you have a 2 year wait on NAS D110 restorations now?

Feel free to PM, or email me.

My UK guys found/ can find a couple good trucks, we'll use them to fill space in the containers we ship anyway and sell them. Doing that doesn't take any time away from doing restorations. Actually it speeds up the restoration process a bit as a container that isn't full of parts and would have to wait can then be "filled" with an older 110.
This won't be part of our business plan. I don't see being able to find many trucks that are up to what I would want to sell, condition wise. This is mainly just a conversation topic, not a real question.

Doug, I see your point about making an older 110 better and I agree these will be good to buy as projects to modernize and restore, but remember that a 1983 110 with a 300 Tdi is not legal for import. You may get away with it for a time, but in the end Customs comes knocking. I didn't think it would happen to me either, but in the end they will catch up with you.
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Old April 18th, 2008, 11:41 AM
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Someone told me recently, "If you want it bad, you'll get it bad" and advised patience regarding getting out of Humpty Dumpty and into another vehicle.

I suppose some of us (me raising hand sheepishly) learn the hard way. I always heard of LR problems and fell for false advertisement and a worthless "inspection" by a dealer; I was willing to spend too much to get a better-than-average truck with [none of the] typical problems. I had reasons for that, but got screwed.

When the fella gave me that advice I had been bitten by the Series bug. I think lots of folks just forget that that "really cool" Rover is really an old, tired utility vehicle... and part of the budget better be for shops like ECR, Pendy, Matt Browne, etc, etc...


It's easy to get caught up in the hype of a neat older vehicle that remains rare.
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Old April 18th, 2008, 01:42 PM
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Mike,

Whats a turbo here and there between friends ?
Hoping they don't, trucks are still 2.5 diesels just like they left Sollihul.

I know what you mean about passing on a truck only to see it resurface. There were two I had passed on @ docks in Southampton last week, and were both inbound USA ports of call with swiss cheese for chassis.
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  #12  
Old April 19th, 2008, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland 110
Hoping they don't, trucks are still 2.5 diesels just like they left Sollihul.
2.495
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Old April 19th, 2008, 04:45 PM
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Here in Canada, we have a 10 year head start. When the magic import date occurred 10 years back, a whole bunch of companies started up tried to import and make a killing selling these old trucks. Most of them lost their shirts. They do not sell. It is almost impossible to make money doing it here. The selling prices have dropped substantially. The only ones with profits are selling fully restored and very expensive trucks to people that have bottomless pockets. Your best bet is to find someone in the UK you can trust to find you a decent deal and import it yourself.
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Old April 19th, 2008, 04:59 PM
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We offer that service, in fact its our main business.
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Old April 19th, 2008, 05:52 PM
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I don't think the 110s will hurt NAS prices as much as a down economy. I have imported vehicles in the past for personal ownership.

You get in trouble financially very quickly when you think that there is a bottomless market for LRs here in the US and that fanciers will fork out big bucks for crap that is brought across the pond.

The gray market vehicles have not sold for near the same money as the real thing and an early 110 is not an NAS Defender either.

I bought my 110 as a salvage and it would be nice if it would keep its value but if it starts to go down then I will feel less necessity to keep close to stock. Then I can paint it and do an engine swap without worrying about a drop in value.
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  #16  
Old April 20th, 2008, 03:04 PM
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yeah, you should see them on the trails. they are actually quite capable without the added weight of all the bolt-on junk.




Quote:
Originally Posted by landrovered
an early 110 is not an NAS Defender either.
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Old April 20th, 2008, 07:14 PM
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I have an old beat up Defender from the UK and absolutely love it. It has never let me down in the desert. It has some rust issues and is a slug on the hwy but once on the trail I could not imagine driving anything else. I say bring em on over.
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  #18  
Old July 5th, 2008, 12:52 PM
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1993 non-NAS D110

I wasn't sure where to post this question, since there are already quite a few threads involving 1983 D110's being imported, and there seems to be trucks popping up on the boards that are genuine 1983 trucks in various state of repair. there are also some with dubious paperwork that probably are not what they are advertised as, and as such, are scams, for lack of a better term. Some owners chose to ignore certain fine print regarding legal minutia, however, the average Joe definitely does not want to deal with having bad paperwork, even if they are able to title and register said vehicle in a certain state.

My question is this: most people like me who spend a good deal of time browsing the rover sites know that the 1993 D110 is on the list of legally importable vehicles, from the nhtsa.dot.gov website. Besides reading about one account on the now-defunct Spanish Trail land rovers website, where a guy described how easy it was for himself to import a 1993 D110 (the article is no longer on the web) there are few, if any, stories of people with 1993 non-NAS 110s.

Why is this? Why has nobody imported from Central or South America? Doesn't the dollar go a lot further in a place like Argentina, where the vehicles are LHD?

I am definitely not in the market, just curious really.
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  #19  
Old July 5th, 2008, 02:02 PM
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They are importable...but they have to be brought up to US standards for the year which include pretty much everything on a NAS truck (roll cage, rear bumper, lighting issues...lots of stuff...and it adds up to a lot of $$$). Still much simpler to just get a NAS 110 or if you want to do it your own way an '83..or an '84 in a few more months.

Anyway you do it you're going to spend a lot of money to have a nice clean 110.
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Old July 5th, 2008, 06:09 PM
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The article from the Spanish trail land rover website had a 1993 and it definitely did not have a rollcage.

Not sure about drivetrain.
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