D'Oh clutch slip - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old October 17th, 2004, 03:00 PM
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D'Oh clutch slip

It never rains but pours....
After a fine day's offroading the clutch started to behave strangely... biting right at the top of the clutch travel and slipping when I floored the throttle...
Pulled over and pumped the clutch a few times and normal(ish) service was resumed, then it started slipping again.
Pulled over into Sainsbury's car park and had a think.... that took a while... checked the clutch housing drain plug which was of course fitted due to deep mud/water, about half a pint of rather burnt black oil came out.(and I'm sorry about the oilslick I left)
The jury is out at the moment as to where the oil came from gearbox or engine...can't decide which would be worse...
If its the gearbox what are the chances of it just being a seal? dito the engine....
I'll check the oil levels in both the engine & gearbox in the morning
Murphy's law - just as the weather gets bad major overhaul work needs doing.
It was a fine day's offroading though despite nearly rolling and putting a huge dent in the roof
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  #2  
Old October 17th, 2004, 11:39 PM
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Did you check the fluid level in the clutch master cylinder? Had the same symptoms once, was low fluid in the master cylinder.

Also, was the oil thick or thin? Might have gotten water in there that couldn't drain, mixed with the old dust from the clutch disk and came out black.

If it was burnt/black oil..... which has burnt/black oil in it? Engine or Transmission? If it was leaking fluid, it would most likely be either the rear main seal in the engine (not fun) or the front main seal in the tranny (not fun, but better than the engine seal).
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  #3  
Old October 18th, 2004, 03:35 AM
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Clutch fluid was good.
Hadn't thought of the clutch dust staining the oil black
The oil that drained out of the clutch housing was quite thin(But Hot ) and black.
I'm going to check the fluid levels and then run with it a little while to see what happens. (something will break most likely )
I'm tending towards the transmission oil seal on the input shaft.
Anyone know if it can be replaced with the gearbox moved back in the chassis or is it the full monty - gearbox out, transfer box off and a strip down job
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  #4  
Old October 18th, 2004, 08:31 AM
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Bummer Mike, they always seem to complain right after being offroaded, or when the weather turns bad. I am going to move this to the looking for help section as it may be of intrest later on by someone else with a similar problem. Had you driven thruough any deep water while out offroading?
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  #5  
Old October 22nd, 2004, 05:00 AM
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I always run with the drain plugs in....I know I shouldn't and I do remember to remove them......but not very often
Seems that after the initial out pouring of black 'oil' probably due ti clutch dust it looks more like hydraulic fluid coming out but the clutch master cylinder shows no sign of dropping in level
I'll just continue to keep an eye on things.
The clutch doesn't slip much anymore. hope the friction plate doesn't explode after it's soaking in what ever it is that's leaked into the clutch housing
I'm reluctant to fit a new clutch until I'm more sure of what the leak is.

Follow-up Post:

As for the deep water, I try and steer clear as much as possible... well the really deep water that is.
It was definately oil that came out of the drain plug (the jury is still out at the moment as to whether it was ATF. hydraulic or engine oil). It would be bad news to rip the engine or transmission out because of water in the clutch housing.
I've just checked back and the clutch is 3 years old and has done 17000 miles, not very far...
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Old October 25th, 2004, 03:44 AM
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Nothing else has dripped out of the drain plug over the past week. What's going on
Had a good time at the Sodbury Sortout...sold some rubbish and bought soneone elses rubbish. 88" hardtop sides to be precise. for a little project I'm contemplaiting for the 110.
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Old October 25th, 2004, 03:34 PM
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It sounds like maybe you had some water accumulated in the bellhousing, maybe it had gotten in through a breather hose or something?

I would suggest keeping a close watch on the engine oil, clutch fluid and transmission fluid levels, but otherwise not worry too much. If the clutch is still working, no sense in replacing it without needing to.

-Hans
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  #8  
Old October 26th, 2004, 05:19 AM
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Don't think it was water. I'm tending towards hydraulic fluid but as I said the master cylinder level is unchanged. I'm keeping an eye on all the fluids ,clutch still slips a little in a high gear at full power up steep hills but it's improving.
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  #9  
Old November 18th, 2004, 07:31 PM
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Mike, not sure if you have resolved your issues with your clutch, but I just experienced the same symptoms and thought I would give my solution. It all started when my clutch master cylinder was replaced because it was leaking (also had the slave cylinder replaced). When I got it back from the shop I noticed the same symptoms that you had. Some times the clutch wouldn't engage until the very top, and it would slip when the rpms went up. But then other times it would drive pretty normal. I took it back to the shop and the mechanic noticed that he had not quite adjusted the "free play" in the pedal (I think this is described in the shop manual). Then they bled the system again and now it drives great.

I can't explain the black fluid that you drained out, but maybe this will help.

-Mike
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  #10  
Old November 18th, 2004, 09:05 PM
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Just FYI about the thrust bearing -- a little entertaining story. It's amazing how long they last after getting noisy. I was off to my first Nevada Trophy in summer of 2003, and the clutch was making some noise on depression. Just to be sure I had a new one shipped up to Lovelock for the event. Anyway, after 10 hrs of highway driving, the clutch was roaring like a stuck pig each time I depressed the pedal, but no time to switch it out. Did the entire 2 day 30 hr. off road event, thinking the clutch would blow out at any time. It didn't. But man, the noises it made would make you want to shudder in fear. Sounded like sand in the teeth of a frustrated lioness. I loaded the new one in the back, drove 9 hrs. home to L.A. The clutch bearing finally froze when it was being wheeled onto the lift for replacement.

Doug W.
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  #11  
Old November 19th, 2004, 05:45 PM
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Clutch seems fine now. I had swapped out the slave clyinder some time previously and I'm wondering if some fluid leaked into the clutch housing somehow after the change???????
The 'slippyness' has all burnt off and (touch wood) it's working fine at the moment
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  #12  
Old November 20th, 2004, 01:17 AM
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If it ain't broken......


Another consideration I thought about... any way that engine coolant may have leaked into the bellhousing?

-Hans
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  #13  
Old November 20th, 2004, 02:33 AM
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I think there is a gallery plug back there but it's an engine out job to replace it
It was definately oily stuff that came out., but doesn't anymore.
Like you said....... If it aint broke don't fix it
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  #14  
Old April 1st, 2005, 05:23 AM
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question on clutch issue!

Hey Guys, I just started having problems with my clutch as well. Did some searching, but can't find an answer. I was out yesterday, when the clutch pedal seemed to be sticking, I could pull it with my foot, in order to get by. I searched around the master and slave for leaks...none. The fluid level is fine. The clutch doesn't make any noises or anything, although it doesn't really grab until I'm almost out of pedal. Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks in advance....

Chris
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Old April 1st, 2005, 07:52 AM
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Hey Chris, maybe it needs to be adjusted? I found this in the FAQ.

http://www.defendersource.com/faq/Tr...ansClutch.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Ottley
If you look at your clutch master cylinder, you'll see a black metal plate with 6 screws in it just in front of the reservoir. Inside that is an adjuster that you should be able to change your engagement point with. On it, there are 2 nuts that are locked together, the shaft going through the engagement lever, and a locking top nut. The 2 nuts on mine are all the way screwed down to the bottom of the shaft (towards the reservoir). Check and see where yours are, and perhaps they will allow enough adjustment for you. The clutch pedal adjuster is on the front (towards front of vehicle) of the whole assembly (bolt with a lock nut). That's about all I can say, from my experienceChris
But it could still be a bad MC or Slave if it's not returning like normal. Did the return spring come off or break by chance?
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  #16  
Old April 1st, 2005, 06:03 PM
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Thanks for the info Mike. I did come across that thread last night, but it didn't seem to be the complete answer...Although I will adjust my clutch pedal slightly, so it grabs a little lower. I didn't come across a "Return Spring" either while looking over the clutch hydrolic system, where should I look for this? Everything is completely dry, with no fluid loss in the master...thats the strange part. Thanks again for the help!

chris
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  #17  
Old April 1st, 2005, 06:26 PM
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On the clutch pedel itself there is a spring to pull it back up. With luck the clutch just needs adjustment.
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  #18  
Old April 1st, 2005, 06:49 PM
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I did check the spring...its seems fine. Its not broken or bent. I'll start with adjusting, then go from there. Also the master is only about 9 months old, just for the record. Thanks again for your help!
Chris
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Old April 3rd, 2005, 02:27 PM
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The spring is really only to stop the pedal from rattling unless you've got one of those spring assisted pedals.

Do you put the drain plug in the clutch housing when you off road?
Sounds more like muck in the clutch mechanism to me. What a PITA!
There are only small springs in the clutch master and slave cylinders, the main return pressure comes from the clutch diaphram spring.

Follow-up Post:

Thinking further to what the Trainmasters chap said you might well have muck in the slave cylinder and that's jamming and preventing the clutch pedal returning, something else to check before splitting gearboxes from engines

Follow-up Post:

I've adjusted my pedal so that it bites further down the travel, it still slips occasionally but I thimk that's due to the soaking in hydraulic fluid it got a good while ago now. I give it some stick off road and the muck seems to burn off and it's fine again, I'll just leave it 'til it lets go irreperably, then new clutch and high ratio transfer box all in one hit
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  #20  
Old April 12th, 2005, 02:16 PM
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Question

Update: Changed the slave unit, bled system....no change. Everything looks good.....anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Chris
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